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Bob, according to Ben's benchmark, governments are voted in and out "on the strength of their economic performance. Ah Ben, so "That's why Labor got voted back in on the strength of their economic performance" wasn't sarcasm? It'll get you every time. That all very well Ben, but you didn't say that "a party's economic performance was such that it couldn't save them from an electoral loss," you said "That's why Labor got voted back in on the strength of their economic performance.

I understand why you did it to make your point easier to argue , but that isn't a problem I created. Ben, the point of sarcasm is to make the statement ridiculous in order to imply the opposite "Great treasurer. That's why Labor got voted back. You've already anticipated the reversal of meaning, no? And still the debt increases but wait didn't the LNP win the election on the back of a "budget emergency" in September last year?

What of the promise by Tony and Joe to provide "a surplus in the first year of a coalition government", seems unlikely. That was before Swan and Wong lost 30 billion dollars in just over a month. It is a bit hard to do a forcast when you do not know how bad the labor government are going to leave the finances in. Not even Labor dreamt they could be that bad. Bob, given the Coalition had been attacking Labor for being economic incompetents and of vandalising the economy for close to six years; and given they had been attacking Treasury forecasts and accusing Treasury of being effectively corrupt, why do you think they imagined the economy would have been so much rosier than it actually was?

Didn't they believe their own rhetoric? Like me and many other and all MPs, we all knew the state of the books. Revenue was falling quickly. What we have is a long list of broken promises and lies. I never knew you were a politician Stuffed Olive. No wonder you knew the state of the books. No one out here in voter land did.

From my memory, every time we heard from Swan, Bowen or Wong talking about the state of the economy the deficit and debt kept increasing far beyond the previous "considered" estimate.

You are right, the long list of broken promises and lies was a disgrace. Yes Bob Wongs 30billion extra defecit in a month was a low point in the entire shambolic period.

Thank god it's over with. The growing debt over the last few years has been due to a shortfall in revenue. Government expenditure last year was smaller as a proportion of GDP than it has been for a long time, including the Howard government.

So, in reality Swan was more fiscally conservative than Costello. So why the shortfall in revenue? The strong dollar mostly. There was a chap called John Maynard Keynes, probably the most influential economist of the 20th Century. If ever you heard the term Keynesian economics, it refers to John Maynard Keynes. Keynes focused on the business cycle. You might have noticed that the economy seems to have booms followed by busts, this is the business cycle. Keynes' idea was that the Government had a responsibility to affect the business cycle.

Keynes proposed that during the boom times the Government should run a surplus to remove money from the economy and take some of the heat out of the boom. During the busts the Government should run a deficit to inject money into the economy to generate activity.

The Government is not a business and hence it makes sense for the Government to build infrastructure and undertake other activities during the busts, when prices are cheaper. Of course, it is difficult to predict when the busts will occur and get major infrastructure, up and running quickly. Going back to and , when the economy was booming Howard was providing tax cuts and other welfare that was putting money into the economy. Hence, the Reserve bank increased interest rates.

It only got worse during the election when both Rudd and Howard were promising tax cuts. It was the right thing to do for Labor to go into deficit to support the economy during the G.

For Hockey to dramatically reduce Government spending now in a weal economy would be the worst thing to do. Unless he removes tax concessions that do not increase economic activity, such as fuel rebates to the mining industry.

Keynes was not the fount of knowledge oyou seem to think. Most countries got out of the Depression pretty well by using old fashioned methods.

America tried Keysianism and stayed in depression until Milton Freidman is the smartest economist of the 20th century The Americans and rudd tried anew form of Keysianism in and that was disastrous in the US. Fortunately here in Oz things weren't as bad, but we have been left with an unnecessary public debt.

Your assessment of Freidman is an opinion. His policies were an abomination to those who had to live under them. You should read more about the consequences of those policies in South America, Russia, Poland and the USA and see how your assessment stacks up to the truth. Friedman lambasted welfare and yet never once did he personally live under his policies, instead he lived the life of Riley as a tenured professor at the Chicago School of Economics, which itself gets handouts from the government to stay afloat.

Ironic really, since he espoused personal financial responsibility for both the individual and the corporations. What an economic dolt. Friedman said he knew Keynes was the most important economist, with the basis for all variations of approach flowing from him and his followers.

Friedman led that other economic and all round dolt, Reagan , up the path of spending stupidly while cutting revenues, thus ruining the longer term basis of USA prosperity until Clinton fixed it.

This suggests you are a laughable lawyer. Milton Friedman is the smartest economist of the 20th Century? Really Peter, I suggest you return the brief as arguing unwinnable cases destroys ones credibility. Friedman's methodology that resulted in what came to be called Monetarism has been savaged by many reputable economists.

My economics lecturer used to say that using Friedmanite logic you could prove anything, and demonstrated that by proving irony alert on that every man, be he white or black or brown, was a criminal. Don't pander to te brownshirts with common sense and old, orthodox knowledge. The sound of jackboots will drown reason itself. Hayek would endorse Keynesian attitudes if applied now to a flagging economy in a free society. Sydney Bob, Save us the lecture will ya.

Rudd spent 60bn from Oct on direct GFC stimulus to get us through the crisis. Where did the bn balance go? Was it spent on productive assets? Nope it was pissed away on general running costs that got out of hand. We have no such luxury now. Swann was a wrecking ball and Wong was just plain useless. I do not believe that is correct. Revenues had risen significantly over most years of the Labor government.

They were just over optimistic in their assumptions and then spent according to these erroneous assumptions. They spent more than they collected. The worlds best treasurer never delivered a correct economic forcast and always made rediculous assumptions.

If Swan was the worlds best treasurer than the world is in deep trouble. So why couldnt the government just save the extra revenue and keep spending the same or decrease it? Because the size of the population has been rapidly expanding. We have the fastest population growth of any developed country thanks to immigration policy started by Howard and continued by the ALP and now Abbott. And most of that is driven by record levels of immigration not refugees, but of so called skilled migrants.

So government spending also has to increase to pay for all the things a larger population needs. So yes, revenue has gone up in absolute terms, but not in proportion to GDP. This change made their tax take seem lower, butin reality it was higher than under the Howard Government.

The OECD uses a different revenue measure but its results show the same trend. Ben, the ALP got voted out because it's internal politics were a train wreck. No other way that a then opposition leader like our Tony could ever have got elected.

How high did his preferred PM ratings go, pretty well below average and would have been even lower had the ALP not self destructed. God help us when one vote from his party saw us lumbered with this man. Of course you'll tell us that he won in a landslide, you're right but anyone would have. That landslide is diminishing to a small rock fall as we speak. As stated earlier, I'll be voting for neither of the majors.

Before you ask, not the greens either. An economy under Wayne Swan that was the envy of the world, wasnt it, or have you forgotten already? I am sure the percentage is reasonably light in comparison to MSM.

That being the case why is there such an outrage by neo-cons to the ABC and what they say. This article show just how out to touch most people are with the facts. The real challenge for Labour is to engage the vast population of Australia in understanding what is being done in their name. No-one should live in poverty in Australia and no children should be denied their rightful future.

One of the reasons they're so paranoid is because lots tune in. And you'd be surprised at who they are. They used to talk about 'our worst enemies talking to our best friends'. Thats one of the reasons cutting is harder than it seems. You could argue the ABC is a transfer of benefits to the middle and upper classes.

I'm not so sure Sea Monster, that they're paranoid because "lots tune in"; but rather because those that do, are given cred points by the those around them. It's somewhat like the Aussie attitude to academics. There's not a lot of academics compared to the more normal 'run of the mill' mongs and generally the wider community sticks the boot in to them when they get the chance And let's not forget that pollies are by definition 'paranoid'.

That's why they put on their facades of 'self-assuredness' and 'confidence', because the last thing they want anyone to see is just how paranoid they are underneath that confected exterior display. If they can't put the boot into something they don't directly "pay for" like they can't with privately owned media unless the privately owned media breaks a law by being defamatory or openly seditious, they'll sure as Hell try to take a swipe at an organisation they can miss construe as being directly funded by themselves - much like their less astute supporters do.

I am on lots of committees in business and charities and I can't say I've seen any academics on any of them. The thing is that the best and brightest in most fields do not go into academia. It is only the ASLP that loves giving lots of grants and consultancies to otherwise useless academics.

Thats why such people love left wing governments so much. Right wing governments don't pay them as much respect. Id never put an academic in a charge of an event or project. Too much theory and not enough nous. Bit like pollies and ABC correspondents really. They only way the child would miss out was if the parents were selfish and spent their benefits on booze, pokies or other things instead of the necessities.

When the government tries to bring in measures like the basics card to ensure that parents MUST spend incomings on essentials everyone cries about the right of those on benefits to have the dignity to choose how they spend their money. The only people who can give these kids their rightful future is their parents. Not all parents are created equal. Education is not free Kate. If the parents are selfish - Kate, some of them wouldn't know what day it is, or there is a needle stuck in their arm or a sack of goon waiting.

Social services are cut and cut so who looks after the children. It is not pretty out there and the sooner people realise it the better. I think people are on to the MSM and that many like myself stopped paying attention to their talking points years ago. I understand your point, I just don't quite buy it.

I think we're losing sight of the degree to which Labor's leadership disarray impacted that election. The coalition are behaving as if they can afford to wholesale ignore a laundry list of their own promises, and that simply isn't the case. Somebody at the time did an analysis of around the top dozen seats won by the coalition and found that the cumulative number of votes that swung it was around 30, That's small, I would have thought too small to go around breaking promises to people who it appears you're very much indebted to and you might well decide after this to desert you come the next election.

Hudson, the leadership issue certainly was a factor - but who presented that constantly? The Coalition victory certainly wasn't the resounding victory that's been claimed since, but that doesn't seem to have registered with the Abbott government. Their condescension towards the electorate including those who gave them their vote is showing poor judgement in the extreme. Could the ABC please let us know which posters are actually employees of the ABC and those who work for political parties including unions.

We do not need names just affliations and associations. Why not engage with the content of the arguments instead? And you're not likewise curious who the right-wing paid-up posters are here? Um, a union isn't exactly a political party. I don't think there is anyway you can actually get real statistics on what you ask. Hold on, there is a group with perception of "an age of entitlement" - politicians. By award standards, the allowances and perks politicians get are enormous.

And when one is caught doing what, would otherwise be called fraud, their excuse is that everyone does it. Who can we trust to honestly audit the perks of the politicians? The only way to do it is to put it all up on a public website.

Exactly what they are entitled to and exactly what each of them claim. That will keep them honest. And as this is public expenditure, there is no right to privacy. What politicians get is their 'entitlement'. What critics of politicians need is a good looking over to see how they can be shut up. I thought Abbott would be allowing SPC workers to get a huge pay rise.

I guess he's OK now though as he gets more than Obama. Who other than Tony Abbott has ever been to claim a taxpayer funded travel allowance while cycling about on a charity fundraiser?

When Tony Abbott explains this, I'll consider whether it's worth criticising the allowance previously paid to some SPC cleaners back in the days when they provided their own protective equipment to cover caustic-soda related wear and tear to said equipment. Coz Tony reckons that sort of entitlement is killing SPC. Sharman Stone on ABC radio yesterday. She did try and back pedal Dave, showing she is a bit of a liar herself - typical liberal but at the same time she wants to be seen to represent her electorate.

I missed that Hung. I heard Sharman Stone on the radio at lunchtime yesterday and later on the tele. I thought she was good makes a change for a Liberal. I've met her and one thing I can say assuredly is that she can speak well in sentences, no ums and ars. Her problem though was she didn't have much merit in Abbott's eyes for a Cabinet position.

She has more experience that most of the current Abbott team. She presented really well SO but she did get a bit cagey when asked if she called Abbott a liar. She then did a bit of a word game to get around it but in the end is an untruth a lie? She would make a better PM then Abbott but then again almost anyone would. Olive, the beginning of 'payback' for having only one woman in Cabinet perhaps? Olive, Stone lacks a Y chromosome and has too many X chromosomes to fit into the cabinet.

The seat for a token female had already been taken. All academic and 17 years an MP yet thinks she knows how to run a fruit cannery better than the next pollie?

But all need realise - Sherman is trying to pick out and critique all SPC's problems. Abbott is only trying to decide whether to inject taxpayers funds. Big difference in ambition. And no wonder they disagreed. The "lie" claim only came after reporter badgering. Bit of an own goal there Gregory - what does Abbott and his team know about running a cannery - nothing and even less about actual working conditions and payments. I don't know what Sharman did prior to her academic time - her bio details don't elaborate.

Sharman is one who does this. Nothing like her ex-neighbour MP Mirabella who got tossed out. Gotta love the 'logic'. Dave, Tony runs by the slogan 'Charity begins with the Australian taxpayer'! Once these formerly productive and energetic people had became disabled, unemployed, or thrown on the scrap heap due to old age pensions the social consensus was that they should be supported by government taxes.

This is the social consensus that Joe Hockey and his gang is working to break up. So if you statistically break down the figures on recipients of disability, the unemployment or age pension by their nationality you will see that certain ethnic groupings are overrepresented among the recipients.

So, in effect, their current disability and being put on the scrap heap is the result of their past contribution to Australia, having been kicked as underdogs in the labour market from the very start of their settlement in this country. Although the Age of Entitlement does not in theory attack particular nationalities in Australian society Therefore, the welfare activists should counter-attack the Abbott government on this practical effect of national discrimination directed mainly against people who came here from Southern and Eastern Europe, from Middle East and Muslim countries, and of course, against the Aborigines.

The bottom line here is people like Abbott and Joe Hockey want to dispossess the formerly most productive workers their children and families of their subsistence rights in Australian society. Nah - they're just mean, miserable bastards whose idea of welfare only encompasses the truly worthy - big businesses who are funders of the IPA and the HR Nichols Society. Interesting article but you are defining "age of entitlement" very narrowly to equate it solely to pensions and the dole.

It of course means much more than that and includes family payments, the diesel fuel subsidy and handouts to business to name just three. Of course your average tory is very much into the age of entitlement when it comes to his farmer and business mates so don't expect any changes here, except to increase the handouts.

Ben the self called Lawyer. Tory is the pet name for Conservatives in the UK, your so called Liberals and Nationals are not Liberals and Nationals anymore they have lost their identity and should be referred to by their true name Conservatives as the Conservative Party was set up to defend Big businesses interest through politics.

Time to refer to them as to what they have made themselves into True Blue Conservatives. No, scourge, just another sign that the bulk of the modern-day left have lost the urge to think for themselves. They read the phrase 'tory' in the Guardian, and hear it in Billy Bragg songs, and being the right-on fashion victims they are, they parrot it endlessly.

So if you don't think tory is relevant could you please explain that idiotic luvvy, luvvie, luvvy duvvy, lefty, socialist, communist reference which I have to understand as meaning a Labor supporter. The fact is that tory or Tory is way more definitive of any Liberal pollie these days. The Nationals are just all basket cases.

Hence why it isn't relevant here. Thank you for your agreement. It's gone in and out of fashion, but it's still a better description of the politics of the LNP than the "liberal" tag. In fact Canada's conservative party's official name was the Tory Party until they changed it in the 80's to the Progressive Conservatives in a stunning tribute to oxymoronism.

Actually Tory is a good name with a noble tradition. I am happy to label myself as a Tory. It is basically an alternative to Conservative. Unfortunately Conservative, like Liberal, is a word with a different meaning outside politics,a meaning which doesn't really reflect what political conservatism is all about.

That why Tory is a good word. The history is that in the UK, much of the right wing of the 19th century Liberal Party formerly the Whigs defected to the Tories in and However, there were no parties formally know as Conservative or Liberal. In the ealy s, PM Deakin who was from the liberal tradition forged a merger with the conseervative MPs so as to form the first Liberal Party.

I believe it was called that because Deakin was the outstanding personality of the Fusion, as it was known. Throughout its history the Liberal Party has been an alliance between liberal and tories.

This leads to a tension that I think has made the Liberal PArty great. Peter the Lawyer claimed: I think has made the Liberal PArty great. Their employer is going to the wall anyway because the business is a dog and no one wants canned fruit anymore like buggy whip manufacturers, if no one buys the product, why should the taxpayer pick u the tab to keep people in a job?

If SPC shut down, the workers would have to find something else, and they would.. Something is not right in this equation is it? Plenty of people buy SPC and Ardmona products. It's many other factors which has given rise to problems. Do a bit of research please because you don't understand the importance of SPC one bit. It is the buyer of fruit and veg from farmers in an irrigation district, one which btw has had a lot of money spent of making irrigation more efficient through the use of government money.

It'll stuff up the farmers and it will waste millions of dollars of taxpayer money. Not supporting SPC is criminal neglect in my view. It is an investment, not a bail out. Upgrading equipment and process systems can only be a good thing. Seriously though, and that was trivial I know but couldn't resist Upgrading equipment, to produce something no one wants is stupid Let CCA raise the funds with a float and see what the market thinks of their idea to upgrade. It is not exactly a crown jewel for SPC and more an embarrassment they don't know what to do with.

If government says no to their begging, they can close it down, blame government - if government gives them the money, they keep it open since someone else is paying. If CCA believed that upgrading would solve it, they would do it themselves - like so much manufacturing industry that is past its time, SPC is a dinosaur.

Personally I don't buy canned fruit, who does when you can get fresh fruit, why would you honestly bother - all the nutritionists will tell you fresh fruit is best, and not canned fruit with "extra" sugar. It's dead, Olive, let it go. I explained the Cannery outlet - it's damaged or excess and it's better than sending it to the tip which done by many others, including Coles and Woolies.

I've bought SPC products for over 40 years - the Cannery outlet is only a few years old. But people are buying canned fruit and veg all the time. They love supposed Italian tomatoes which are subsidised and dumped here.

Do you support that? Can you argue with facts. CCA are putting up most of the dosh needed for the upgrade. What do you say about the wasted money on irrigation upgrades, possible devastation of growers. With no local competition will overseas products' prices increase? Do you think government should assist cattle and sheep farmers with the drought problem.

Do you want to eat Australian food at all. Liberal Vic Premier was all for assisting SPC and prior to the election Abbott was heard admonishing Labor for not helping SPC while he was also busy telling the workers they had no better friend than the Liberals. What a load of BS all that was. They put the business plan to the government whose advisors gave it the thumbs up.

They recommended the Govt commit money. I'm not privy to all the details. It would be a good idea if the plan was made public. The govt will be the loser as well as SPC workers, the farmers and the whole Shepparton community. It is a one-off ask for a very specific purpose. If they are making a profit like they are they can borrow the money themselves. SO, so you know for certain the any taxpayers money given to SPCA is going to be used for upgrading equipment and processes?

You are sure that it won't be syphoned off by its parent company CCA? I do so admire your trusting nature. Something is wrong in the analysis. Only an anti-social peanut with untreated problems would see society in such self-centred, egopushing, callous ways. Have you tried to get help for when you have no reasoning or logic but dislike what you see start using abusive commentary?

Good luck, I wish you well, many people with mental illnesses are able to function perfectly well, most of the time. Because it is cheaper than destroying a whole industry and putting thousands of people out of work im wondering where you think all those workers will find jobs, it isnt like there is an empty factory down the road waiting to pick them up.

Because it is cheaper than destroying a whole industry and putting thousands of people out of work" because it is an industry we do not need. No one want scanned fruit.. No one wants them. Your argument that government should keep workers in jobs in a failed business is interesting, considering thousands of business fail all the time, should that all be propped up to save workers being unemployed? No, we have unemployment benefits for that.

Exactly MT, the real slump has been in Australian fruit content, thanks to dumping Blame the supermarket chains for that.. Because that's what is in their report. Gday mick, You do realise that people in cyclone prone areas are advised to have a storage of canned fruit and other food products that don't "go off'' If there hasn't been a cyclone warning for while, often within hours of a warning it's necessary to travel from shop to shop trying to find canned products.

I remember whilst living in a town of over 5, people where it took 3 weeks for electrical power to be restored. What are you talking about with you comment "no one wants canned fruit"? Wrong sorry, sometimes it's the only fruit available that's fit to eat and supply can't satisfy demand.

It's obvious you have never taken any notice to what is asked for in donations to disaster relief. Is money the only thing you care about? How long do you believe you would survive if money was the only thing available to eat? Gday mick I hope you do realise how important it is to have a reliable food source? You can't survive for long by eating money. In cyclone prone areas it is advised that people have a storage of tinned foods, like fruits.

It's wrong to believe that no one wants canned fruit mick. If there hasn't been a cyclone warning for some time you would be surprised how fast the shelves and warehouses are emptied of tinned food when there is a cyclone warning. The shelves can be bare within 2 hours at times here in Darwin and can stay empty until distant stocks are shipped to the shops. If Australia loses it's last fruit canning center we lose some of our food security and the security of edible fruit that stays edible for a very long time, without the need of refrigeration.

No amount of money can provide edible food if none can be found. Have you ever heard the term "Not for Sale'? Countless humans have died trying to defend or obtain food supplies. It would be more likely true that the first human murder was caused for the want of food and not a chance in the world it was for a piece of metal or shinny rock or piece of paper with numbers written on it. Hidden message behind Joey Hockey slogan is the unpleasant reality of a government wishing to attack particular ethic groupings that are overrepresented in claiming welfare.

The Census will show you that there are millions of non-traditional migrants brought into Australia in the past 25 years.

By far they are not production and engineering workers, nor were they labourers like the older traditional migrants. When Australia began importing non-traditional migrants, from non-traditional countries in our region, it brought in a cross-section of people closely resembling the occupational class structure of Australian society. So that you have a very large number of non-production workers imported into Australia, working in various services and serving the life style of middle income families.

This has also put the pressure on our health and welfare system since they were allowed to bring in with them the non-productive members of their families as well. So the non-traditional migrants brought in their relatives under an extended concept of what constitutes a family. In that sense, since millions of these non-traditional migrants come from societies where there are no welfare benefits, they are unlikely to feel any loss of these benefits, or claiming to being under attack, or being dispossessed by this government.

It is the race to the bottom for Australian people, in order to integrate Australia to the lower social standards of the countries in our region. The fact that many European settlers live in Australia, coming from the poorer countries of Europe that still recognise the entitlements as part of their rights of citizenship does not enter his mind.

Most people like you have a problem of understanding how the Australian government works In theory Government is there to hand over and protect the entitlements to every citizen, not just to the richest and wealthiest of the lot.

If not, then the government has broken the social contract consensus and has unofficially declared a war against a section of its population. Bob Hawke has described Australian governance as pragmatic to the core, which in translation means a governance which is not chained to any absolute civilised norms or principles.

Age of Entitlement was brought into this country from Europe and America when the ruling elites of Western countries were pressured to buy off the workers, the militant trade unions, and the general population in order to pacify them, in order to persuade the population to reject communist ideas. Age of Entitlement was a calculated and cynical measure to create a pacified welfare state in order to civilize capitalism. Now since the Soviet Union is no more Joe Hockey and his gang think they can push society back into the future, back towards the barbarism As Noam Chomsky so fittingly described the type of society that Joe Hockey wants to bring here All you want to do is to free yourself from the bad smell of death and decay that surrounds you!

Tony Abbott's rolled gold PPL is entitlement on steroids. This government is a self contradicting rabble of personal interests and whacky tea party style ideologies. It's high time Australia had a real government rather than the one we always deserve. We only gained this mob because the previous bunch were a lot of no hopers. This lot are, sadly, not much different. Greg, you do say the silliest things. What, if anything, does it mean for an economy to limp?

Perhaps the Labor Fan Club can provide one of their fantastically insightful blatherings. Oh, and if you are going to tell us that unemployment is the greatest contributor to the growth of welfare payment numbers, it would be a good idea to show unemployment figures on your graph. Then people can draw their own conclusions. Finally, didn't you start your piece intending to say something about the age of entitlement?

Or were you just damning that Goldstein again? At risk of being accused of "blathering" and of being a member of your "Labor Fan Club" simply for answering your question, FG, I would have thought a limping economy was a farily apt description of an economy that wasn't going at full pelt, was being hamstrung by various factors, and was just about keeping its figurative head above the water, no?

MJ, what, if anything does it mean for an economy to "go at full pelt",to be "hamstrung" or "keep its figurative head above water? Your anthopomorphism takes you in the same circles as silly words in the article. What do you mean by "same circles", FG? Does your silly application of geometric shapes to incoming messages mean you have morphed into a blathering member of your Labor Fan Club? Or, am I perhaps appropriating your own assumptions?

This is what happens when a person is so wedded to an ideology, and so emotively invested in certain political parties, people and policies - true and balanced thought ceases and we descend into tribal insults and dismissals of hard data. The hardest political position to maintain in 21st century Australia is to be a true political moderate, approving of good policy and people on all sides of politics.

It is hard to do this since it requires a deliberate setting aside of emotion. It requires the cultivation of self-awareness necessary to expunge the habit of reflexively identifying with a label or a party. It requires a conscious habit of thinking through political issues from a set of ethical first principles. You are using an old version of Internet Explorer which prompts you with security warnings when visiting our forum. Click here for solutions.

Welcome Guest Log In Register. Read latest posts or hide this alert. Share on Track this topic Print this topic. Feb 4 , Show posts by this member only Post Let's see how fast they execute this n make it happen! Feb 6 , SS2 to get new morning market complex and food court facelift.

This development will see the famous SS2 night food court being integrated with the morning market, as well as rooftop parking facilities and integrated waste collection.

The row of hawker stalls across the Sea Park police station will be rebuilt at an estimated cost of RM, Damansara Utama assemblyman Yeo Bee Yin, who was also present at the launch, said the upgrading of the basketball court was the first of several such improvements in the SS2 area.

Mar 22 , Jun 16 , Crab Factory is a hit. Always crowded during dinner. And while they aren't the Sons of the Pioneers, they offer many of the same pleasures. A discovery worth making. Guitar Gable was superb guitar player who, in addition to recordings issued under his own name, was also a sideman on many Miller sessions. There are 13 tracks by Gable. Vocalist on many of the Gable tracks is King Karl who does classic swamp pop performances including the original version of this Should Go On Forever that was a big hit for Rod Bernard and Irene which became a swmp pop standad.

Leroy Washinton was more a straight ahead down home blues performer. He was an excellent singer and a dynamic and imaginative guitar player. A superb selection with excellent sound. There are no notes but booklet does have discographical info. Albert is in top form with great singing and guitar playing and is given outstanding support by a rhythm section of The Bar-Kays and The Movement and the stellar horn work of The Memphis Horns.

The bonus alternates include a longer version of the title song and a stripped down version of Bridge without the horns. The unissued tunes are the hard driving I Need A Love and the tough instrumental Albert's Stomp which are as good as the issued titles. Sound is superb and booklet includes the original notes by Tom Wheeler and new notes from Bill Dahl.

Frank Guarente's World Known Georgians are featured on the remaining 8 sides recorded in Geneva in They were an eight piece band led by King Oliver influenced trumpeter Frank Guarente. The 44 page booklet includes incredibly detailed notes by Rainer LOtz who is probably the leading authority on early jazz and Europe and includes label shots, advertisements and great photos of members of The New Yorkers in Europe.

His Cajun roots are most evident in his French version of Jole Blon but it's a shame the performance is marred by totally inappropriate banjo. But the group had been performing for a decade before world-wide fame and fortune came a knockin', and their entire vinyl output recorded for Imperial Records has been presented on CD not for the first time, but it's the first time all of it has been in one collection.

And don't miss their sublime take on Allen Toussaint's Lipstick Traces not to mention its 'B' side Think it Over, Baby ; it's worth the price of admission all by itself!

They then switched to Demon and hit it big with their first single - the classic Western Movies. It includes all their singles through to 's Cool Short and rounds out the CD with half a dozen tracks drawn from their LPs. Excellent sound and informative notes by Bob Fisher.

Born Jerome Felder in into a middle class Jewish family he was crippled as a child by polio. In his teens he became enamored with Black jazz and blues and taught himself to sing blues in the style of his idol Joe Turner. He changed his name to the hipper sounding Doc Pomus and in the mid 40s he started singing in black clubs - a short, stout, white Jewish guy on crutches backed by some of the great Black musicians of the day including Lester Young, Baby Dodds, the Duke Ellington Orch and others.

The first disc here features 20 of the recordings Doc made between and along with four live club recordings. You would certainly never know that he was not an African-American performer. These tracks were also reissued a few years ago on the Rev-Ola label. King and others - many of them hits.

Sound quality is excellent and there are informative notes by Bob Fisher. Boogie Woogie Country Girl. The singles cover the years to , and judging by the material it doesn't look like Ace UK has scraped the bottom of the barrel just yet.

This is the penultimate volume and it's just as good as the other three; completists take note. Can't Let You Go. Hillbilly On A Budget. Tops releases usually featured hit songs by people no one had ever heard of.

you may participate

This was honestly the first song I ever danced to, one Christmas in the lounge. I was 4 years old. Love the the tom roll and the dark laugh over a great driving rhythm. Super clever and, of course, Sam being the sax player of the great Mr Prima. So what do you expect? He could wail, jump, shout, croon and swoon. A fantastic musician and band leader. Cut in this song features crazy lyrics over a great boogie. The boss blues shouter, shouting the blues over a great jump blues session.

A flamboyant larger than life rhythm'n'blues giant. Johnny Otis band backing Jimmy's vocal with the superb Lamplighters adding fantastic vocal harmony as the band rolls along. The Young Pretender hits the scene running! Olive De Ville, rockabilly singer. Dan Plummer, The Firebirds. Keeps 'em on the floor. I play this at any gig I can get away with. A good jiver to get them up on the floor early. Mitch Mitchell, Wild Angels. I also like the s version by Helen Humes with Bill Doggett. It still finds its way onto my playlists.

This is my current favourite track, but that position does vary quite a lot! Steve Webb, The Roomates. So forceful is the rhythm, the big man doesn't appear to be pickin' his guitar at all.

It sounds like he's driving a damned train. The atmosphere is that of a ballroom filled with whirling, swirling couples, drawn to the floor like moths to a rock'n'roll flame. When guitarist Hank Garland takes what has to be his career best solo, the emotion is almost overpowering. The backbone of Plas Johnson, Earl Palmer and Rene Hall underscoring Floyd's sore-throated vocals represents the finest threesome ever to cut rock'n'roll out on the coast. Boasting a vocal delivery that is bigger than all outdoors, this record simply exudes authority.

The level of confidence on show is appropriated by Floyd Cramer, who flicks his wrist at the keyboard defiantly. Coming on like a college combo let loose in the study hall, The Hi-Liters highlight their guitarist, piano player and sax man over no less than three wonderfully unhinged instrumental breaks.

This is the song that got me hooked on the music. The way the saxophones bring the song in, to Little Richard screaming his distinctive vocals over a rock steady backbeat, followed by a great gravelly sax solo makes this song a classic. Also I love the arrangement of the song, the way the verses are minor and then switch to major for the chorus. One of the best front men and entertainers as well as a great sax player.

The way his guitar kicks this song in and the chorus, which I still have to sing along to, means that this is still one of my all time greats. Every rock'n'roll guitarist will have been influenced by this song one way or the other. Pumpin' piano played by Pete Johnson with Joe Turner's powerful deep voice as well as the rest of the band cookin'! I can never sit still when this record is played. Warren Smith - Ubangi Stomp http: Apr 15, , 8: I love that song!

Have you heard Little Butchie Saunders and his Buddies? Apr 15, , 9: Here are a couple - one straight, one creepy - that are current favorites: Apr 16, , Something Came Over Me http: James Chance and this little no wave diddy all glamed up.

Apr 16, , 1: My nextdoor neighbor with the black afro - throwing eggs against the window in the video was the drummer for this band. He did a stint in Destroy All Monsters as well: Apr 16, , 2: I love the old Kurosawa soundtracks. If one has seen Inland Empire , Lynch sure knows how to make a Beck song scary as hell. Apr 16, , 4: Apr 18, , 7: I wonder what music Dick Clark is listening to right now?

Jun 29, , 1: Jun 29, , Hahah finally someone else who sees the connection between deathrock and decadence. Perhaps this requires it's own thread. In the meantime here's a little ditty by Mephisto Walz I really enjoy: STACCOTTO It is the path of sin that compels our fate And leaves us drowning like the garden Is it surrender that confuses us If not exsistence then departing Is it the ancient soul that crouches low That through the day can never find us In our stealing glances we appear Leaving reflections just behind us The tender hallowed ground still holds us And whisper silence to our ears These frightened winds have always blown us Now only glisten holds us here I think you can watch the video here: Jun 30, , 6: Jul 6, , Jul 12, , Aug 8, , 5: Aug 8, , 6: Aug 29, , Another Hayes Carll, dedicated to our fearless leader and all drunken poets.

Aug 29, , 1: More from Nick Cave: Tindersticks , Rented Rooms: Sep 5, , A box set of Roxy Music should do well in the nether bowels of a debauched libertine's mountain fastness: The brooding Stuart Staples: Sep 7, , Sep 22, , 4: Before Adam Ant became the dandy highwayman, the Ants were incendiary legends of the London punk underground, thought even less likely to get a record deal than Siouxsie and the Banshees. This track, inspired by Dirk Bogarde's 'Night Porter' and cut from the LP of the same name, gives an idea of their glory and outrage: New Throbbing Gristle CD: Oct 5, , 7: All the posts I've managed to read come down to one thing: Even if you don't much enjoy the compositions, you should agree that his touch and tone are among the finest to be heard these days.

I don't myself "do" FaceBook, but I believe that you can hear some of this CD there, which will be a little simpler than finding the CD itself. Nov 23, , 1: Tulsa Queen, Emmylou Harris http: Scott Walker , Farmer in the city: Nov 25, , Nov 30, , Much of Damien Youth's output is eminently abyssal.

Dec 1, , 8: In the interests of Full Disclosure, let me say that what follows may be more than a little influenced by the fact that my Internet service has been dropping out at annoying and unpredictable intervals for the past couple of days.

Still, the core of the idea isn't dependent on that the 'net any more, I believe, than our search for music is dependent on YouTube, fun though that is.

I am reminded of Charles Ives' remark on Thoreau: Perhaps we should remind ourselves at regular intervals that we certainly don't need LibraryThing in order to plumb the abyss. Even so, I'm glad you're all out there, and sweet peace to you all in your tunes and in your pregnant silences. And to show you that I'm at-least as inconsistent as anybody, let me hip you to the music at the sites stankosepic.

They're both galaxies away from what most above would call "abyss music" -- and from each other -- but after all, as the Divine Oscar said of books, there really are only two kinds, good and bad.

Dec 1, , 9: But if you must have tunes you can hummmmmmmmmmmm. I have just been informed this week that the Fifties classic "Hernando's Hideaway" works with the words of "The Rime of the Ancient Mariner". And before anybody even thinks of lecturing me about my non-existent racism in writing that, please recall that Taj Mahal recorded it before any of us had even thought of LT, the Internet, or frankly, much of anything else.

I rest my case -- for now. Peace and joy to you all, brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers, and all ships at eas. Dec 7, , 7: Jerry Reed - Another Puff http: Dec 8, , I'm thinking of an album. It's red and has a last supper themed photo. One song is ICIB. Anioher is about smoking and its derogatory. I can't bring it fully to mind. On that southern label with a chalice symbol. Dec 8, , 9: Dec 21, , 1: Dec 21, , 3: The best I can say about him is that his patchouli-laden name comes up when searching for Young Jesse, who is a mighty god: I smell a rat: What says "Christmas" more than Peppermint: Dec 21, , 6: Classic lyrics from JCY "It's four in the mornin' and I'm watching a cockroach crawlin' in an old bean can" Amen to Peppermint and a decadent holiday to all!

We can only hope. Dec 21, , 7: Amen, brother - and to bring succor to all whom the Mayans have let down, I offer the obvious: Those idiots got it wrong. We're at the end of the fourth long cycle, another 15, years to go! Dec 21, , 8: Dec 22, , 9: Not sure what calendar you're using, but I remember that the SubGenius religion had its apocalypse back in The spread of mediocritons and the pinks make that the true-true. Dec 22, , We MUST get a winner one day!

Dec 22, , 8: Wasn't it Borges who said that everyone has their own personal apocalypse? Dec 31, , The Coronation Mass by Mozart: Happy New Year, y'all! Jan 3, , 4: Jan 1, , 3: Jan 3, , Jan 3, , 5: The film of Prayer Cushions of the Flesh is out there: Jan 10, , 4: Marianne Faithfull tells it like it is: Jan 10, , A very humble contribution: Karl, I've thought of the perfect complement to that Clint Eastwood masterpiece: Jan 11, , 2: Jan 11, , 9: Iggy and The Stooges: How about some entheogenic refreshment?

Jan 11, , Louis Jordan, I'll Die Happy: Jan 12, , Jan 13, , All these songs about horse, snow, smack, bubbly, reefer and freaks.

How about us oenophiles? Jan 12, , 8: Not from an abyss, but at least from a dark holler: Jan 13, , 1: Let's keep that train a rollin': Finally found the cd,Western Beat, an old fav, used, 6 bucks. Kevin Welch - Something 'bout You https: By now, everyone probably already knows that Bowie is releasing his first new album in a decade. The angels are singing in heaven.

Jan 13, , 4: A very pioneering lady. Jan 13, , 9: Jan 14, , 8: I'd never heard of Mrs. If not for LT, I'd still be just another beastly quadruped. Or, the rest of the pack. Jan 14, , 9: Something for a Sunday morn! You can chuck all the lines out to belittle the LNP if that's your thing, go for it, but if you want to also include benchmarks in the same sentence I think you should look at recent history.

And don't you think it's somewhat reckless to have someone who's CV reads, high school, uni, trade union and finally politician as someone how can say he or she is best placed to be Treasurer of Australia?

Swann has never held a real job in his life, unless you include trade union work. He has never run a business, never helped run a business, never been employed to run someone else business, nor has he been head of any significant economic bodies, never been part of any economic bodies.

And only time will tell if he's offered a huge private contract but so far, not looking good. This includes both sides but I would be so bold to say half of them should not be where they are today if we looked at their CV's.

I'm sure over time there has been plenty of independents who were not part of any political machine, hadn't paid their dues to some party ideology but guess what they didn't get elected because half you clowns when you were born picked a side.

Get on the fence and cast doubt on both sides of politics. Ricky, I was simply applying a benchmark Ben's that had been used to attack one side of politics to the other side of politics. What could be fairer than that?

Cast doubt on both sides? I'd suggest watching objectively both sides. There's too much doubt-casting going on. A bit of observation and analysis is what we need. Exactly what the ABC provides and many of the commercial incl. Murdoch sources do rarely. Funny, the economy was doing well under Howard and everything was booming. Rudd was voted in by promising to do the same things as Howard economically as well as decrying how harsh and unjust Howard was toward asylum seekers coming by boat.

Rudd eventually saw how rediculous he was and became even harsher than Howard. The Howard loss was also helped by the unions scare campaign about workchoices. Now that these agreements have expired no one is game to employ and the companies are leaving our shores in droves.

Bob, according to Ben's benchmark, governments are voted in and out "on the strength of their economic performance. Ah Ben, so "That's why Labor got voted back in on the strength of their economic performance" wasn't sarcasm? It'll get you every time. That all very well Ben, but you didn't say that "a party's economic performance was such that it couldn't save them from an electoral loss," you said "That's why Labor got voted back in on the strength of their economic performance.

I understand why you did it to make your point easier to argue , but that isn't a problem I created. Ben, the point of sarcasm is to make the statement ridiculous in order to imply the opposite "Great treasurer. That's why Labor got voted back. You've already anticipated the reversal of meaning, no? And still the debt increases but wait didn't the LNP win the election on the back of a "budget emergency" in September last year? What of the promise by Tony and Joe to provide "a surplus in the first year of a coalition government", seems unlikely.

That was before Swan and Wong lost 30 billion dollars in just over a month. It is a bit hard to do a forcast when you do not know how bad the labor government are going to leave the finances in.

Not even Labor dreamt they could be that bad. Bob, given the Coalition had been attacking Labor for being economic incompetents and of vandalising the economy for close to six years; and given they had been attacking Treasury forecasts and accusing Treasury of being effectively corrupt, why do you think they imagined the economy would have been so much rosier than it actually was?

Didn't they believe their own rhetoric? Like me and many other and all MPs, we all knew the state of the books.

Revenue was falling quickly. What we have is a long list of broken promises and lies. I never knew you were a politician Stuffed Olive. No wonder you knew the state of the books. No one out here in voter land did. From my memory, every time we heard from Swan, Bowen or Wong talking about the state of the economy the deficit and debt kept increasing far beyond the previous "considered" estimate. You are right, the long list of broken promises and lies was a disgrace.

Yes Bob Wongs 30billion extra defecit in a month was a low point in the entire shambolic period. Thank god it's over with. The growing debt over the last few years has been due to a shortfall in revenue. Government expenditure last year was smaller as a proportion of GDP than it has been for a long time, including the Howard government.

So, in reality Swan was more fiscally conservative than Costello. So why the shortfall in revenue? The strong dollar mostly. There was a chap called John Maynard Keynes, probably the most influential economist of the 20th Century. If ever you heard the term Keynesian economics, it refers to John Maynard Keynes.

Keynes focused on the business cycle. You might have noticed that the economy seems to have booms followed by busts, this is the business cycle. Keynes' idea was that the Government had a responsibility to affect the business cycle. Keynes proposed that during the boom times the Government should run a surplus to remove money from the economy and take some of the heat out of the boom.

During the busts the Government should run a deficit to inject money into the economy to generate activity. The Government is not a business and hence it makes sense for the Government to build infrastructure and undertake other activities during the busts, when prices are cheaper.

Of course, it is difficult to predict when the busts will occur and get major infrastructure, up and running quickly. Going back to and , when the economy was booming Howard was providing tax cuts and other welfare that was putting money into the economy.

Hence, the Reserve bank increased interest rates. It only got worse during the election when both Rudd and Howard were promising tax cuts. It was the right thing to do for Labor to go into deficit to support the economy during the G.

For Hockey to dramatically reduce Government spending now in a weal economy would be the worst thing to do. Unless he removes tax concessions that do not increase economic activity, such as fuel rebates to the mining industry. Keynes was not the fount of knowledge oyou seem to think.

Most countries got out of the Depression pretty well by using old fashioned methods. America tried Keysianism and stayed in depression until Milton Freidman is the smartest economist of the 20th century The Americans and rudd tried anew form of Keysianism in and that was disastrous in the US.

Fortunately here in Oz things weren't as bad, but we have been left with an unnecessary public debt. Your assessment of Freidman is an opinion. His policies were an abomination to those who had to live under them. You should read more about the consequences of those policies in South America, Russia, Poland and the USA and see how your assessment stacks up to the truth. Friedman lambasted welfare and yet never once did he personally live under his policies, instead he lived the life of Riley as a tenured professor at the Chicago School of Economics, which itself gets handouts from the government to stay afloat.

Ironic really, since he espoused personal financial responsibility for both the individual and the corporations. What an economic dolt. Friedman said he knew Keynes was the most important economist, with the basis for all variations of approach flowing from him and his followers.

Friedman led that other economic and all round dolt, Reagan , up the path of spending stupidly while cutting revenues, thus ruining the longer term basis of USA prosperity until Clinton fixed it. This suggests you are a laughable lawyer.

Milton Friedman is the smartest economist of the 20th Century? Really Peter, I suggest you return the brief as arguing unwinnable cases destroys ones credibility. Friedman's methodology that resulted in what came to be called Monetarism has been savaged by many reputable economists.

My economics lecturer used to say that using Friedmanite logic you could prove anything, and demonstrated that by proving irony alert on that every man, be he white or black or brown, was a criminal. Don't pander to te brownshirts with common sense and old, orthodox knowledge. The sound of jackboots will drown reason itself. Hayek would endorse Keynesian attitudes if applied now to a flagging economy in a free society. Sydney Bob, Save us the lecture will ya.

Rudd spent 60bn from Oct on direct GFC stimulus to get us through the crisis. Where did the bn balance go?

Was it spent on productive assets? Nope it was pissed away on general running costs that got out of hand. We have no such luxury now. Swann was a wrecking ball and Wong was just plain useless. I do not believe that is correct. Revenues had risen significantly over most years of the Labor government. They were just over optimistic in their assumptions and then spent according to these erroneous assumptions.

They spent more than they collected. The worlds best treasurer never delivered a correct economic forcast and always made rediculous assumptions. If Swan was the worlds best treasurer than the world is in deep trouble. So why couldnt the government just save the extra revenue and keep spending the same or decrease it? Because the size of the population has been rapidly expanding.

We have the fastest population growth of any developed country thanks to immigration policy started by Howard and continued by the ALP and now Abbott. And most of that is driven by record levels of immigration not refugees, but of so called skilled migrants. So government spending also has to increase to pay for all the things a larger population needs.

So yes, revenue has gone up in absolute terms, but not in proportion to GDP. This change made their tax take seem lower, butin reality it was higher than under the Howard Government. The OECD uses a different revenue measure but its results show the same trend.

Ben, the ALP got voted out because it's internal politics were a train wreck. No other way that a then opposition leader like our Tony could ever have got elected. How high did his preferred PM ratings go, pretty well below average and would have been even lower had the ALP not self destructed. God help us when one vote from his party saw us lumbered with this man. Of course you'll tell us that he won in a landslide, you're right but anyone would have.

That landslide is diminishing to a small rock fall as we speak. As stated earlier, I'll be voting for neither of the majors. Before you ask, not the greens either. An economy under Wayne Swan that was the envy of the world, wasnt it, or have you forgotten already?

I am sure the percentage is reasonably light in comparison to MSM. That being the case why is there such an outrage by neo-cons to the ABC and what they say. This article show just how out to touch most people are with the facts.

The real challenge for Labour is to engage the vast population of Australia in understanding what is being done in their name. No-one should live in poverty in Australia and no children should be denied their rightful future. One of the reasons they're so paranoid is because lots tune in. And you'd be surprised at who they are. They used to talk about 'our worst enemies talking to our best friends'. Thats one of the reasons cutting is harder than it seems. You could argue the ABC is a transfer of benefits to the middle and upper classes.

I'm not so sure Sea Monster, that they're paranoid because "lots tune in"; but rather because those that do, are given cred points by the those around them. It's somewhat like the Aussie attitude to academics. There's not a lot of academics compared to the more normal 'run of the mill' mongs and generally the wider community sticks the boot in to them when they get the chance And let's not forget that pollies are by definition 'paranoid'. That's why they put on their facades of 'self-assuredness' and 'confidence', because the last thing they want anyone to see is just how paranoid they are underneath that confected exterior display.

If they can't put the boot into something they don't directly "pay for" like they can't with privately owned media unless the privately owned media breaks a law by being defamatory or openly seditious, they'll sure as Hell try to take a swipe at an organisation they can miss construe as being directly funded by themselves - much like their less astute supporters do. I am on lots of committees in business and charities and I can't say I've seen any academics on any of them. The thing is that the best and brightest in most fields do not go into academia.

It is only the ASLP that loves giving lots of grants and consultancies to otherwise useless academics. Thats why such people love left wing governments so much. Right wing governments don't pay them as much respect. Id never put an academic in a charge of an event or project.

Too much theory and not enough nous. Bit like pollies and ABC correspondents really. They only way the child would miss out was if the parents were selfish and spent their benefits on booze, pokies or other things instead of the necessities. When the government tries to bring in measures like the basics card to ensure that parents MUST spend incomings on essentials everyone cries about the right of those on benefits to have the dignity to choose how they spend their money.

The only people who can give these kids their rightful future is their parents. Not all parents are created equal. Education is not free Kate. If the parents are selfish - Kate, some of them wouldn't know what day it is, or there is a needle stuck in their arm or a sack of goon waiting.

Social services are cut and cut so who looks after the children. It is not pretty out there and the sooner people realise it the better. I think people are on to the MSM and that many like myself stopped paying attention to their talking points years ago.

I understand your point, I just don't quite buy it. I think we're losing sight of the degree to which Labor's leadership disarray impacted that election.

The coalition are behaving as if they can afford to wholesale ignore a laundry list of their own promises, and that simply isn't the case.

Somebody at the time did an analysis of around the top dozen seats won by the coalition and found that the cumulative number of votes that swung it was around 30, That's small, I would have thought too small to go around breaking promises to people who it appears you're very much indebted to and you might well decide after this to desert you come the next election.

Hudson, the leadership issue certainly was a factor - but who presented that constantly? The Coalition victory certainly wasn't the resounding victory that's been claimed since, but that doesn't seem to have registered with the Abbott government. Their condescension towards the electorate including those who gave them their vote is showing poor judgement in the extreme. Could the ABC please let us know which posters are actually employees of the ABC and those who work for political parties including unions.

We do not need names just affliations and associations. Why not engage with the content of the arguments instead? And you're not likewise curious who the right-wing paid-up posters are here?

Um, a union isn't exactly a political party. I don't think there is anyway you can actually get real statistics on what you ask. Hold on, there is a group with perception of "an age of entitlement" - politicians. By award standards, the allowances and perks politicians get are enormous. And when one is caught doing what, would otherwise be called fraud, their excuse is that everyone does it. Who can we trust to honestly audit the perks of the politicians? The only way to do it is to put it all up on a public website.

Exactly what they are entitled to and exactly what each of them claim. That will keep them honest. And as this is public expenditure, there is no right to privacy. What politicians get is their 'entitlement'. What critics of politicians need is a good looking over to see how they can be shut up.

I thought Abbott would be allowing SPC workers to get a huge pay rise. I guess he's OK now though as he gets more than Obama. Who other than Tony Abbott has ever been to claim a taxpayer funded travel allowance while cycling about on a charity fundraiser?

When Tony Abbott explains this, I'll consider whether it's worth criticising the allowance previously paid to some SPC cleaners back in the days when they provided their own protective equipment to cover caustic-soda related wear and tear to said equipment.

Coz Tony reckons that sort of entitlement is killing SPC. Sharman Stone on ABC radio yesterday. She did try and back pedal Dave, showing she is a bit of a liar herself - typical liberal but at the same time she wants to be seen to represent her electorate. I missed that Hung. I heard Sharman Stone on the radio at lunchtime yesterday and later on the tele. I thought she was good makes a change for a Liberal. I've met her and one thing I can say assuredly is that she can speak well in sentences, no ums and ars.

Her problem though was she didn't have much merit in Abbott's eyes for a Cabinet position. She has more experience that most of the current Abbott team. She presented really well SO but she did get a bit cagey when asked if she called Abbott a liar. She then did a bit of a word game to get around it but in the end is an untruth a lie? She would make a better PM then Abbott but then again almost anyone would.

Olive, the beginning of 'payback' for having only one woman in Cabinet perhaps? Olive, Stone lacks a Y chromosome and has too many X chromosomes to fit into the cabinet. The seat for a token female had already been taken. All academic and 17 years an MP yet thinks she knows how to run a fruit cannery better than the next pollie? But all need realise - Sherman is trying to pick out and critique all SPC's problems. Abbott is only trying to decide whether to inject taxpayers funds.

Big difference in ambition. And no wonder they disagreed. The "lie" claim only came after reporter badgering. Bit of an own goal there Gregory - what does Abbott and his team know about running a cannery - nothing and even less about actual working conditions and payments.

I don't know what Sharman did prior to her academic time - her bio details don't elaborate. Sharman is one who does this. Nothing like her ex-neighbour MP Mirabella who got tossed out. Gotta love the 'logic'. Dave, Tony runs by the slogan 'Charity begins with the Australian taxpayer'!

Once these formerly productive and energetic people had became disabled, unemployed, or thrown on the scrap heap due to old age pensions the social consensus was that they should be supported by government taxes.

This is the social consensus that Joe Hockey and his gang is working to break up. So if you statistically break down the figures on recipients of disability, the unemployment or age pension by their nationality you will see that certain ethnic groupings are overrepresented among the recipients. So, in effect, their current disability and being put on the scrap heap is the result of their past contribution to Australia, having been kicked as underdogs in the labour market from the very start of their settlement in this country.

Although the Age of Entitlement does not in theory attack particular nationalities in Australian society Therefore, the welfare activists should counter-attack the Abbott government on this practical effect of national discrimination directed mainly against people who came here from Southern and Eastern Europe, from Middle East and Muslim countries, and of course, against the Aborigines.

The bottom line here is people like Abbott and Joe Hockey want to dispossess the formerly most productive workers their children and families of their subsistence rights in Australian society. Nah - they're just mean, miserable bastards whose idea of welfare only encompasses the truly worthy - big businesses who are funders of the IPA and the HR Nichols Society. Interesting article but you are defining "age of entitlement" very narrowly to equate it solely to pensions and the dole.

It of course means much more than that and includes family payments, the diesel fuel subsidy and handouts to business to name just three. Of course your average tory is very much into the age of entitlement when it comes to his farmer and business mates so don't expect any changes here, except to increase the handouts.

Ben the self called Lawyer. Tory is the pet name for Conservatives in the UK, your so called Liberals and Nationals are not Liberals and Nationals anymore they have lost their identity and should be referred to by their true name Conservatives as the Conservative Party was set up to defend Big businesses interest through politics. Time to refer to them as to what they have made themselves into True Blue Conservatives. No, scourge, just another sign that the bulk of the modern-day left have lost the urge to think for themselves.

They read the phrase 'tory' in the Guardian, and hear it in Billy Bragg songs, and being the right-on fashion victims they are, they parrot it endlessly. So if you don't think tory is relevant could you please explain that idiotic luvvy, luvvie, luvvy duvvy, lefty, socialist, communist reference which I have to understand as meaning a Labor supporter. The fact is that tory or Tory is way more definitive of any Liberal pollie these days.

The Nationals are just all basket cases. Hence why it isn't relevant here. Thank you for your agreement. It's gone in and out of fashion, but it's still a better description of the politics of the LNP than the "liberal" tag. In fact Canada's conservative party's official name was the Tory Party until they changed it in the 80's to the Progressive Conservatives in a stunning tribute to oxymoronism. Actually Tory is a good name with a noble tradition. I am happy to label myself as a Tory. It is basically an alternative to Conservative.

Unfortunately Conservative, like Liberal, is a word with a different meaning outside politics,a meaning which doesn't really reflect what political conservatism is all about. That why Tory is a good word. The history is that in the UK, much of the right wing of the 19th century Liberal Party formerly the Whigs defected to the Tories in and However, there were no parties formally know as Conservative or Liberal.

In the ealy s, PM Deakin who was from the liberal tradition forged a merger with the conseervative MPs so as to form the first Liberal Party. I believe it was called that because Deakin was the outstanding personality of the Fusion, as it was known. Throughout its history the Liberal Party has been an alliance between liberal and tories. This leads to a tension that I think has made the Liberal PArty great.

Peter the Lawyer claimed: I think has made the Liberal PArty great. Their employer is going to the wall anyway because the business is a dog and no one wants canned fruit anymore like buggy whip manufacturers, if no one buys the product, why should the taxpayer pick u the tab to keep people in a job? If SPC shut down, the workers would have to find something else, and they would.. Something is not right in this equation is it?

Plenty of people buy SPC and Ardmona products. It's many other factors which has given rise to problems. Do a bit of research please because you don't understand the importance of SPC one bit. It is the buyer of fruit and veg from farmers in an irrigation district, one which btw has had a lot of money spent of making irrigation more efficient through the use of government money. It'll stuff up the farmers and it will waste millions of dollars of taxpayer money.

Not supporting SPC is criminal neglect in my view. It is an investment, not a bail out. Upgrading equipment and process systems can only be a good thing. Seriously though, and that was trivial I know but couldn't resist Upgrading equipment, to produce something no one wants is stupid Let CCA raise the funds with a float and see what the market thinks of their idea to upgrade.

It is not exactly a crown jewel for SPC and more an embarrassment they don't know what to do with. If government says no to their begging, they can close it down, blame government - if government gives them the money, they keep it open since someone else is paying. If CCA believed that upgrading would solve it, they would do it themselves - like so much manufacturing industry that is past its time, SPC is a dinosaur.

Personally I don't buy canned fruit, who does when you can get fresh fruit, why would you honestly bother - all the nutritionists will tell you fresh fruit is best, and not canned fruit with "extra" sugar. It's dead, Olive, let it go. I explained the Cannery outlet - it's damaged or excess and it's better than sending it to the tip which done by many others, including Coles and Woolies.

I've bought SPC products for over 40 years - the Cannery outlet is only a few years old. But people are buying canned fruit and veg all the time. They love supposed Italian tomatoes which are subsidised and dumped here. Do you support that? Can you argue with facts. CCA are putting up most of the dosh needed for the upgrade. What do you say about the wasted money on irrigation upgrades, possible devastation of growers.

With no local competition will overseas products' prices increase? Do you think government should assist cattle and sheep farmers with the drought problem. Do you want to eat Australian food at all. Liberal Vic Premier was all for assisting SPC and prior to the election Abbott was heard admonishing Labor for not helping SPC while he was also busy telling the workers they had no better friend than the Liberals.

What a load of BS all that was. They put the business plan to the government whose advisors gave it the thumbs up. They recommended the Govt commit money. I'm not privy to all the details. It would be a good idea if the plan was made public. The govt will be the loser as well as SPC workers, the farmers and the whole Shepparton community. It is a one-off ask for a very specific purpose.

If they are making a profit like they are they can borrow the money themselves. SO, so you know for certain the any taxpayers money given to SPCA is going to be used for upgrading equipment and processes? You are sure that it won't be syphoned off by its parent company CCA? I do so admire your trusting nature. Something is wrong in the analysis. Only an anti-social peanut with untreated problems would see society in such self-centred, egopushing, callous ways.

Have you tried to get help for when you have no reasoning or logic but dislike what you see start using abusive commentary? Good luck, I wish you well, many people with mental illnesses are able to function perfectly well, most of the time.

Because it is cheaper than destroying a whole industry and putting thousands of people out of work im wondering where you think all those workers will find jobs, it isnt like there is an empty factory down the road waiting to pick them up. Because it is cheaper than destroying a whole industry and putting thousands of people out of work" because it is an industry we do not need.

No one want scanned fruit.. No one wants them. Your argument that government should keep workers in jobs in a failed business is interesting, considering thousands of business fail all the time, should that all be propped up to save workers being unemployed? No, we have unemployment benefits for that. Exactly MT, the real slump has been in Australian fruit content, thanks to dumping Blame the supermarket chains for that.. Because that's what is in their report.

Gday mick, You do realise that people in cyclone prone areas are advised to have a storage of canned fruit and other food products that don't "go off'' If there hasn't been a cyclone warning for while, often within hours of a warning it's necessary to travel from shop to shop trying to find canned products. I remember whilst living in a town of over 5, people where it took 3 weeks for electrical power to be restored. What are you talking about with you comment "no one wants canned fruit"?

Wrong sorry, sometimes it's the only fruit available that's fit to eat and supply can't satisfy demand. It's obvious you have never taken any notice to what is asked for in donations to disaster relief. Is money the only thing you care about? How long do you believe you would survive if money was the only thing available to eat?

Gday mick I hope you do realise how important it is to have a reliable food source? You can't survive for long by eating money. In cyclone prone areas it is advised that people have a storage of tinned foods, like fruits. It's wrong to believe that no one wants canned fruit mick.

If there hasn't been a cyclone warning for some time you would be surprised how fast the shelves and warehouses are emptied of tinned food when there is a cyclone warning. The shelves can be bare within 2 hours at times here in Darwin and can stay empty until distant stocks are shipped to the shops. If Australia loses it's last fruit canning center we lose some of our food security and the security of edible fruit that stays edible for a very long time, without the need of refrigeration.

No amount of money can provide edible food if none can be found. Have you ever heard the term "Not for Sale'? Countless humans have died trying to defend or obtain food supplies. It would be more likely true that the first human murder was caused for the want of food and not a chance in the world it was for a piece of metal or shinny rock or piece of paper with numbers written on it.

Hidden message behind Joey Hockey slogan is the unpleasant reality of a government wishing to attack particular ethic groupings that are overrepresented in claiming welfare. The Census will show you that there are millions of non-traditional migrants brought into Australia in the past 25 years.

By far they are not production and engineering workers, nor were they labourers like the older traditional migrants. When Australia began importing non-traditional migrants, from non-traditional countries in our region, it brought in a cross-section of people closely resembling the occupational class structure of Australian society.

So that you have a very large number of non-production workers imported into Australia, working in various services and serving the life style of middle income families. This has also put the pressure on our health and welfare system since they were allowed to bring in with them the non-productive members of their families as well. So the non-traditional migrants brought in their relatives under an extended concept of what constitutes a family.

In that sense, since millions of these non-traditional migrants come from societies where there are no welfare benefits, they are unlikely to feel any loss of these benefits, or claiming to being under attack, or being dispossessed by this government. It is the race to the bottom for Australian people, in order to integrate Australia to the lower social standards of the countries in our region.

The fact that many European settlers live in Australia, coming from the poorer countries of Europe that still recognise the entitlements as part of their rights of citizenship does not enter his mind. Most people like you have a problem of understanding how the Australian government works In theory Government is there to hand over and protect the entitlements to every citizen, not just to the richest and wealthiest of the lot. If not, then the government has broken the social contract consensus and has unofficially declared a war against a section of its population.

Bob Hawke has described Australian governance as pragmatic to the core, which in translation means a governance which is not chained to any absolute civilised norms or principles. Age of Entitlement was brought into this country from Europe and America when the ruling elites of Western countries were pressured to buy off the workers, the militant trade unions, and the general population in order to pacify them, in order to persuade the population to reject communist ideas. Age of Entitlement was a calculated and cynical measure to create a pacified welfare state in order to civilize capitalism.

Now since the Soviet Union is no more Joe Hockey and his gang think they can push society back into the future, back towards the barbarism As Noam Chomsky so fittingly described the type of society that Joe Hockey wants to bring here All you want to do is to free yourself from the bad smell of death and decay that surrounds you! Tony Abbott's rolled gold PPL is entitlement on steroids. This government is a self contradicting rabble of personal interests and whacky tea party style ideologies.

life

He's very funny as well. Another one I read after Cave's novel with peculiar similarities to it was Banville's Mefisto. That one I will recommend unreservedly. Oct 3, , 2: Oct 15, , 3: Various and sundry Limonchiki - Amsterdam Klezmer Band http: Oct 15, , 6: If you're in a more cartoonishly macho mood: Oct 25, , Christine Kittrell - Sittin And Drinkin http: Oct 25, , 1: A disturbingly infectious ditty: Nov 4, , Can't get enough gypsy fusion.

Shantel - Sadagora http: Nov 4, , 1: Nov 10, , 9: Nov 15, , Esquerita - Rockin' The Joint http: He was an idol of this act: How about Jimmy Beck? Pipe Dreams by Jimmie Beck http: Nov 17, , 8: Nov 19, , 8: Ennio Morricone - La Lucertola 6: Nov 20, , Thanks David - time to hunt down the dvds! Here is another classic: And Franco's other classic - Venus in Furs: From The Wicker Man And a morsel of 80s gothic cheese: Nov 20, , 2: Only geezers remember this. Nov 21, , 1: More 60's nostalgia Donovan - Sand and Foam http: Nov 29, , 6: The unofficial video would be more accurately described as a set of visual footnotes.

Nov 30, , 8: Nov 30, , 3: Diamanda Galas Greek-American performer who most definitely fits in here. She recorded Baudelaire's "Litanies of Satan" here in the original French as a performance art piece http: Her whole catalog is worth experiencing, its quite varied. They are often credited with being the first to blend punk, goth, and country. They sound to me like a hit and run Cormac McCarthy, rotting on the asphalt in Hollywood. Nov 30, , 9: My favorite live band from the 80s!

LA punk boiled in Delta Blues. Jeffrey Lee Pierce is dearly missed. Dec 1, , Oh god, you saw them live I'm boiling in envy now! I hope to find a copy of Jeffrey's book at a reasonable price someday. He is a criminally underrated artist! I suppose we really should add X to this list as well, especially the first two albums I always imagined that the music composed by St John and his partner in Lovecraft's "The Hound" sounded like Zero Kama; ritual music played on instruments fashioned from human bone for the purpose of this album.

Dec 1, , 3: I seldom tire of plugging this act, and this song, particularly: Dec 1, , 7: Oh thats a good one, Frank Tovey was amazing! I saw a guy get Frank Tovey and Boyd Rice to each sign the same NON record multiple times - each time sending snide insults the others direction - too funny.

How about some factrix http: Dec 27, , 6: Dec 28, , Debashish Bhattacharya - Sufi Bhakti Indian slide guitar http: Dec 29, , Jan 14, , 1: Love and a Molotov Cocktail - http: Jan 15, , 8: Jan 14, , 2: Liked that Indian slide guitar tros, and those Flys take me back to a time when anyone could start up a band and play good music This is an established favourite.

Samira live, unfortunately - http: When You Smile - http: Slip Inside This House - http: You're gonna miss me http: Truck Driving SOB - http: James with a certain nod to his notable studies in the New Testament Apocrypha the greatest ghost story writer in the English language, and the finest medievalist of his generation. Join Dr Wakeford and the Rev.

Winter evenings will never be the same again… Presented in a luxurious digipak with booklet. One of my favorites from the s: More of my night on the town nostalgia music: Jan 14, , 3: American decadence at its finest, Iggy and The Stooges: I Got a Right - http: Jan 14, , 5: Iggy was really something wasn't he.

LS - big fan of the Triple Tree here. Most of the tracks should be up on youtube too if anyone wants a taster. Jan 15, , 4: Wow, Ben, that Dream Syndicate clip brought a tear to my eye and made me feel 16 again. I could have been one of those kids in that record store in El Toro. I loved that band in its original line-up with Karl Precoda and Kendra Smith both seen here so very much. I guess one could say the music itself was derivative of the Velvets, Television, Jonathan Richman etc.

Thanks for linking this-I'll be passing the video on to other people who were part of the scene or wished they were in those days. Jan 19, , 8: Jan 19, , Thee Headcoatees Drunk and Disorderly: Jan 20, , 4: On a different note: Jan 21, , 5: Jan 23, , 6: Jan 22, , Killer Pussy has made my night. Jan 24, , 6: Jan 27, , 6: Jan 27, , Barney Bigard - Sweet Marijuana Brown http: Feb 4, , 1: Regret to say I have not heard of this band before, although they hail from my homeland Feb 4, , 2: Feb 4, , 4: Huzzah to the 70s Soho flaneurs!

Feb 5, , 2: In the spirit of the OP, "appropriately gloomy and dark": Feb 7, , Dark techno with Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas samples: Feb 20, , 3: Feb 20, , 6: I don't think I have posted this here yet: Here is belated VD post All in all, a great song: Feb 20, , 7: Feb 20, , Mar 30, , 1: Apr 15, , Warren Smith - Ubangi Stomp http: Apr 15, , 8: I love that song! Have you heard Little Butchie Saunders and his Buddies? Apr 15, , 9: Here are a couple - one straight, one creepy - that are current favorites: Apr 16, , Something Came Over Me http: James Chance and this little no wave diddy all glamed up.

Apr 16, , 1: My nextdoor neighbor with the black afro - throwing eggs against the window in the video was the drummer for this band. Previous experience isn't required but willingness to work hard is a must as vintage always.

Ceccato csb 30 ivr inverter compressor with drylife unit and storage tank. Large unit that would run entire workshop. Forklift available to load. We found 36 additional ads in surrounding suburbs. Good condition, good tyres, large forklift for off road use.

Good afternoon, I am selling this tractor on behalf of an older friend who is moving. This tractor has been well looked after and is mechanically sound. Includes other buckets refer to photos. If there are any specific questions that you may have, feel free to contact me directly. Included in this sale is the vehicle to move the tractor, a Hino KL Slight oil leak, however, it does run just fine. Breaks replaced within 1 year. Under the Act, the owner would be liable to a fine of RM,, jail, or forfeiture of land, as the real intent was to use the premises as a commercial business of providing accommodation.

Bro where you stay? Try weekend mornings, sure reach here fast. Jul 4 , Fancy having a nice durian party without being rip-off by by durian stalls Donalds ,SS2Durian etc? Here is an alternative for you to explore and compare how much they overcharged us. This post has been edited by Chigme: Nov 19 , Jul 15 , Go Thai SS2 should be goodie, filled with people to the brim.

Jul 19 , Go thai food sucks, dont know why so many people. Track this topic Receive email notification when a reply has been made to this topic and you are not active on the board. Subscribe to this forum Receive email notification when a new topic is posted in this forum and you are not active on the board. Look at all my stars!! Finally something to be done to that dirty place!!!

Can't believe ppl still eat there, next to a pile of rubbish building up everyday.

like every

Most countries got out of the Depression pretty well by using old fashioned methods. America tried Keysianism and stayed in depression until Milton Freidman is the smartest economist of the 20th century The Americans and rudd tried anew form of Keysianism in and that was disastrous in the US.

Fortunately here in Oz things weren't as bad, but we have been left with an unnecessary public debt. Your assessment of Freidman is an opinion.

His policies were an abomination to those who had to live under them. You should read more about the consequences of those policies in South America, Russia, Poland and the USA and see how your assessment stacks up to the truth.

Friedman lambasted welfare and yet never once did he personally live under his policies, instead he lived the life of Riley as a tenured professor at the Chicago School of Economics, which itself gets handouts from the government to stay afloat. Ironic really, since he espoused personal financial responsibility for both the individual and the corporations. What an economic dolt. Friedman said he knew Keynes was the most important economist, with the basis for all variations of approach flowing from him and his followers.

Friedman led that other economic and all round dolt, Reagan , up the path of spending stupidly while cutting revenues, thus ruining the longer term basis of USA prosperity until Clinton fixed it. This suggests you are a laughable lawyer. Milton Friedman is the smartest economist of the 20th Century?

Really Peter, I suggest you return the brief as arguing unwinnable cases destroys ones credibility. Friedman's methodology that resulted in what came to be called Monetarism has been savaged by many reputable economists. My economics lecturer used to say that using Friedmanite logic you could prove anything, and demonstrated that by proving irony alert on that every man, be he white or black or brown, was a criminal. Don't pander to te brownshirts with common sense and old, orthodox knowledge.

The sound of jackboots will drown reason itself. Hayek would endorse Keynesian attitudes if applied now to a flagging economy in a free society. Sydney Bob, Save us the lecture will ya. Rudd spent 60bn from Oct on direct GFC stimulus to get us through the crisis. Where did the bn balance go? Was it spent on productive assets?

Nope it was pissed away on general running costs that got out of hand. We have no such luxury now. Swann was a wrecking ball and Wong was just plain useless. I do not believe that is correct. Revenues had risen significantly over most years of the Labor government. They were just over optimistic in their assumptions and then spent according to these erroneous assumptions.

They spent more than they collected. The worlds best treasurer never delivered a correct economic forcast and always made rediculous assumptions. If Swan was the worlds best treasurer than the world is in deep trouble. So why couldnt the government just save the extra revenue and keep spending the same or decrease it?

Because the size of the population has been rapidly expanding. We have the fastest population growth of any developed country thanks to immigration policy started by Howard and continued by the ALP and now Abbott. And most of that is driven by record levels of immigration not refugees, but of so called skilled migrants.

So government spending also has to increase to pay for all the things a larger population needs. So yes, revenue has gone up in absolute terms, but not in proportion to GDP. This change made their tax take seem lower, butin reality it was higher than under the Howard Government.

The OECD uses a different revenue measure but its results show the same trend. Ben, the ALP got voted out because it's internal politics were a train wreck. No other way that a then opposition leader like our Tony could ever have got elected. How high did his preferred PM ratings go, pretty well below average and would have been even lower had the ALP not self destructed.

God help us when one vote from his party saw us lumbered with this man. Of course you'll tell us that he won in a landslide, you're right but anyone would have. That landslide is diminishing to a small rock fall as we speak. As stated earlier, I'll be voting for neither of the majors. Before you ask, not the greens either.

An economy under Wayne Swan that was the envy of the world, wasnt it, or have you forgotten already? I am sure the percentage is reasonably light in comparison to MSM. That being the case why is there such an outrage by neo-cons to the ABC and what they say. This article show just how out to touch most people are with the facts. The real challenge for Labour is to engage the vast population of Australia in understanding what is being done in their name. No-one should live in poverty in Australia and no children should be denied their rightful future.

One of the reasons they're so paranoid is because lots tune in. And you'd be surprised at who they are. They used to talk about 'our worst enemies talking to our best friends'. Thats one of the reasons cutting is harder than it seems. You could argue the ABC is a transfer of benefits to the middle and upper classes. I'm not so sure Sea Monster, that they're paranoid because "lots tune in"; but rather because those that do, are given cred points by the those around them.

It's somewhat like the Aussie attitude to academics. There's not a lot of academics compared to the more normal 'run of the mill' mongs and generally the wider community sticks the boot in to them when they get the chance And let's not forget that pollies are by definition 'paranoid'. That's why they put on their facades of 'self-assuredness' and 'confidence', because the last thing they want anyone to see is just how paranoid they are underneath that confected exterior display.

If they can't put the boot into something they don't directly "pay for" like they can't with privately owned media unless the privately owned media breaks a law by being defamatory or openly seditious, they'll sure as Hell try to take a swipe at an organisation they can miss construe as being directly funded by themselves - much like their less astute supporters do.

I am on lots of committees in business and charities and I can't say I've seen any academics on any of them. The thing is that the best and brightest in most fields do not go into academia. It is only the ASLP that loves giving lots of grants and consultancies to otherwise useless academics. Thats why such people love left wing governments so much. Right wing governments don't pay them as much respect. Id never put an academic in a charge of an event or project. Too much theory and not enough nous.

Bit like pollies and ABC correspondents really. They only way the child would miss out was if the parents were selfish and spent their benefits on booze, pokies or other things instead of the necessities. When the government tries to bring in measures like the basics card to ensure that parents MUST spend incomings on essentials everyone cries about the right of those on benefits to have the dignity to choose how they spend their money.

The only people who can give these kids their rightful future is their parents. Not all parents are created equal. Education is not free Kate. If the parents are selfish - Kate, some of them wouldn't know what day it is, or there is a needle stuck in their arm or a sack of goon waiting. Social services are cut and cut so who looks after the children. It is not pretty out there and the sooner people realise it the better.

I think people are on to the MSM and that many like myself stopped paying attention to their talking points years ago. I understand your point, I just don't quite buy it. I think we're losing sight of the degree to which Labor's leadership disarray impacted that election.

The coalition are behaving as if they can afford to wholesale ignore a laundry list of their own promises, and that simply isn't the case. Somebody at the time did an analysis of around the top dozen seats won by the coalition and found that the cumulative number of votes that swung it was around 30, That's small, I would have thought too small to go around breaking promises to people who it appears you're very much indebted to and you might well decide after this to desert you come the next election.

Hudson, the leadership issue certainly was a factor - but who presented that constantly? The Coalition victory certainly wasn't the resounding victory that's been claimed since, but that doesn't seem to have registered with the Abbott government. Their condescension towards the electorate including those who gave them their vote is showing poor judgement in the extreme.

Could the ABC please let us know which posters are actually employees of the ABC and those who work for political parties including unions. We do not need names just affliations and associations. Why not engage with the content of the arguments instead? And you're not likewise curious who the right-wing paid-up posters are here?

Um, a union isn't exactly a political party. I don't think there is anyway you can actually get real statistics on what you ask. Hold on, there is a group with perception of "an age of entitlement" - politicians. By award standards, the allowances and perks politicians get are enormous.

And when one is caught doing what, would otherwise be called fraud, their excuse is that everyone does it. Who can we trust to honestly audit the perks of the politicians?

The only way to do it is to put it all up on a public website. Exactly what they are entitled to and exactly what each of them claim. That will keep them honest. And as this is public expenditure, there is no right to privacy. What politicians get is their 'entitlement'.

What critics of politicians need is a good looking over to see how they can be shut up. I thought Abbott would be allowing SPC workers to get a huge pay rise. I guess he's OK now though as he gets more than Obama. Who other than Tony Abbott has ever been to claim a taxpayer funded travel allowance while cycling about on a charity fundraiser?

When Tony Abbott explains this, I'll consider whether it's worth criticising the allowance previously paid to some SPC cleaners back in the days when they provided their own protective equipment to cover caustic-soda related wear and tear to said equipment.

Coz Tony reckons that sort of entitlement is killing SPC. Sharman Stone on ABC radio yesterday. She did try and back pedal Dave, showing she is a bit of a liar herself - typical liberal but at the same time she wants to be seen to represent her electorate. I missed that Hung. I heard Sharman Stone on the radio at lunchtime yesterday and later on the tele.

I thought she was good makes a change for a Liberal. I've met her and one thing I can say assuredly is that she can speak well in sentences, no ums and ars. Her problem though was she didn't have much merit in Abbott's eyes for a Cabinet position. She has more experience that most of the current Abbott team. She presented really well SO but she did get a bit cagey when asked if she called Abbott a liar.

She then did a bit of a word game to get around it but in the end is an untruth a lie? She would make a better PM then Abbott but then again almost anyone would. Olive, the beginning of 'payback' for having only one woman in Cabinet perhaps? Olive, Stone lacks a Y chromosome and has too many X chromosomes to fit into the cabinet. The seat for a token female had already been taken. All academic and 17 years an MP yet thinks she knows how to run a fruit cannery better than the next pollie?

But all need realise - Sherman is trying to pick out and critique all SPC's problems. Abbott is only trying to decide whether to inject taxpayers funds. Big difference in ambition. And no wonder they disagreed. The "lie" claim only came after reporter badgering. Bit of an own goal there Gregory - what does Abbott and his team know about running a cannery - nothing and even less about actual working conditions and payments.

I don't know what Sharman did prior to her academic time - her bio details don't elaborate. Sharman is one who does this. Nothing like her ex-neighbour MP Mirabella who got tossed out. Gotta love the 'logic'. Dave, Tony runs by the slogan 'Charity begins with the Australian taxpayer'! Once these formerly productive and energetic people had became disabled, unemployed, or thrown on the scrap heap due to old age pensions the social consensus was that they should be supported by government taxes.

This is the social consensus that Joe Hockey and his gang is working to break up. So if you statistically break down the figures on recipients of disability, the unemployment or age pension by their nationality you will see that certain ethnic groupings are overrepresented among the recipients. So, in effect, their current disability and being put on the scrap heap is the result of their past contribution to Australia, having been kicked as underdogs in the labour market from the very start of their settlement in this country.

Although the Age of Entitlement does not in theory attack particular nationalities in Australian society Therefore, the welfare activists should counter-attack the Abbott government on this practical effect of national discrimination directed mainly against people who came here from Southern and Eastern Europe, from Middle East and Muslim countries, and of course, against the Aborigines. The bottom line here is people like Abbott and Joe Hockey want to dispossess the formerly most productive workers their children and families of their subsistence rights in Australian society.

Nah - they're just mean, miserable bastards whose idea of welfare only encompasses the truly worthy - big businesses who are funders of the IPA and the HR Nichols Society. Interesting article but you are defining "age of entitlement" very narrowly to equate it solely to pensions and the dole. It of course means much more than that and includes family payments, the diesel fuel subsidy and handouts to business to name just three. Of course your average tory is very much into the age of entitlement when it comes to his farmer and business mates so don't expect any changes here, except to increase the handouts.

Ben the self called Lawyer. Tory is the pet name for Conservatives in the UK, your so called Liberals and Nationals are not Liberals and Nationals anymore they have lost their identity and should be referred to by their true name Conservatives as the Conservative Party was set up to defend Big businesses interest through politics.

Time to refer to them as to what they have made themselves into True Blue Conservatives. No, scourge, just another sign that the bulk of the modern-day left have lost the urge to think for themselves. They read the phrase 'tory' in the Guardian, and hear it in Billy Bragg songs, and being the right-on fashion victims they are, they parrot it endlessly.

So if you don't think tory is relevant could you please explain that idiotic luvvy, luvvie, luvvy duvvy, lefty, socialist, communist reference which I have to understand as meaning a Labor supporter.

The fact is that tory or Tory is way more definitive of any Liberal pollie these days. The Nationals are just all basket cases. Hence why it isn't relevant here. Thank you for your agreement. It's gone in and out of fashion, but it's still a better description of the politics of the LNP than the "liberal" tag.

In fact Canada's conservative party's official name was the Tory Party until they changed it in the 80's to the Progressive Conservatives in a stunning tribute to oxymoronism. Actually Tory is a good name with a noble tradition. I am happy to label myself as a Tory. It is basically an alternative to Conservative. Unfortunately Conservative, like Liberal, is a word with a different meaning outside politics,a meaning which doesn't really reflect what political conservatism is all about.

That why Tory is a good word. The history is that in the UK, much of the right wing of the 19th century Liberal Party formerly the Whigs defected to the Tories in and However, there were no parties formally know as Conservative or Liberal. In the ealy s, PM Deakin who was from the liberal tradition forged a merger with the conseervative MPs so as to form the first Liberal Party. I believe it was called that because Deakin was the outstanding personality of the Fusion, as it was known.

Throughout its history the Liberal Party has been an alliance between liberal and tories. This leads to a tension that I think has made the Liberal PArty great. Peter the Lawyer claimed: I think has made the Liberal PArty great. Their employer is going to the wall anyway because the business is a dog and no one wants canned fruit anymore like buggy whip manufacturers, if no one buys the product, why should the taxpayer pick u the tab to keep people in a job?

If SPC shut down, the workers would have to find something else, and they would.. Something is not right in this equation is it? Plenty of people buy SPC and Ardmona products. It's many other factors which has given rise to problems.

Do a bit of research please because you don't understand the importance of SPC one bit. It is the buyer of fruit and veg from farmers in an irrigation district, one which btw has had a lot of money spent of making irrigation more efficient through the use of government money. It'll stuff up the farmers and it will waste millions of dollars of taxpayer money.

Not supporting SPC is criminal neglect in my view. It is an investment, not a bail out. Upgrading equipment and process systems can only be a good thing. Seriously though, and that was trivial I know but couldn't resist Upgrading equipment, to produce something no one wants is stupid Let CCA raise the funds with a float and see what the market thinks of their idea to upgrade.

It is not exactly a crown jewel for SPC and more an embarrassment they don't know what to do with. If government says no to their begging, they can close it down, blame government - if government gives them the money, they keep it open since someone else is paying. If CCA believed that upgrading would solve it, they would do it themselves - like so much manufacturing industry that is past its time, SPC is a dinosaur.

Personally I don't buy canned fruit, who does when you can get fresh fruit, why would you honestly bother - all the nutritionists will tell you fresh fruit is best, and not canned fruit with "extra" sugar. It's dead, Olive, let it go. I explained the Cannery outlet - it's damaged or excess and it's better than sending it to the tip which done by many others, including Coles and Woolies. I've bought SPC products for over 40 years - the Cannery outlet is only a few years old. But people are buying canned fruit and veg all the time.

They love supposed Italian tomatoes which are subsidised and dumped here. Do you support that? Can you argue with facts. CCA are putting up most of the dosh needed for the upgrade. What do you say about the wasted money on irrigation upgrades, possible devastation of growers. With no local competition will overseas products' prices increase?

Do you think government should assist cattle and sheep farmers with the drought problem. Do you want to eat Australian food at all. Liberal Vic Premier was all for assisting SPC and prior to the election Abbott was heard admonishing Labor for not helping SPC while he was also busy telling the workers they had no better friend than the Liberals. What a load of BS all that was. They put the business plan to the government whose advisors gave it the thumbs up.

They recommended the Govt commit money. I'm not privy to all the details. It would be a good idea if the plan was made public. The govt will be the loser as well as SPC workers, the farmers and the whole Shepparton community. It is a one-off ask for a very specific purpose. If they are making a profit like they are they can borrow the money themselves. SO, so you know for certain the any taxpayers money given to SPCA is going to be used for upgrading equipment and processes? You are sure that it won't be syphoned off by its parent company CCA?

I do so admire your trusting nature. Something is wrong in the analysis. Only an anti-social peanut with untreated problems would see society in such self-centred, egopushing, callous ways.

Have you tried to get help for when you have no reasoning or logic but dislike what you see start using abusive commentary? Good luck, I wish you well, many people with mental illnesses are able to function perfectly well, most of the time. Because it is cheaper than destroying a whole industry and putting thousands of people out of work im wondering where you think all those workers will find jobs, it isnt like there is an empty factory down the road waiting to pick them up. Because it is cheaper than destroying a whole industry and putting thousands of people out of work" because it is an industry we do not need.

No one want scanned fruit.. No one wants them. Your argument that government should keep workers in jobs in a failed business is interesting, considering thousands of business fail all the time, should that all be propped up to save workers being unemployed? No, we have unemployment benefits for that. Exactly MT, the real slump has been in Australian fruit content, thanks to dumping Blame the supermarket chains for that..

Because that's what is in their report. Gday mick, You do realise that people in cyclone prone areas are advised to have a storage of canned fruit and other food products that don't "go off'' If there hasn't been a cyclone warning for while, often within hours of a warning it's necessary to travel from shop to shop trying to find canned products. I remember whilst living in a town of over 5, people where it took 3 weeks for electrical power to be restored.

What are you talking about with you comment "no one wants canned fruit"? Wrong sorry, sometimes it's the only fruit available that's fit to eat and supply can't satisfy demand. It's obvious you have never taken any notice to what is asked for in donations to disaster relief. Is money the only thing you care about? How long do you believe you would survive if money was the only thing available to eat?

Gday mick I hope you do realise how important it is to have a reliable food source? You can't survive for long by eating money. In cyclone prone areas it is advised that people have a storage of tinned foods, like fruits. It's wrong to believe that no one wants canned fruit mick. If there hasn't been a cyclone warning for some time you would be surprised how fast the shelves and warehouses are emptied of tinned food when there is a cyclone warning.

The shelves can be bare within 2 hours at times here in Darwin and can stay empty until distant stocks are shipped to the shops. If Australia loses it's last fruit canning center we lose some of our food security and the security of edible fruit that stays edible for a very long time, without the need of refrigeration. No amount of money can provide edible food if none can be found.

Have you ever heard the term "Not for Sale'? Countless humans have died trying to defend or obtain food supplies. It would be more likely true that the first human murder was caused for the want of food and not a chance in the world it was for a piece of metal or shinny rock or piece of paper with numbers written on it.

Hidden message behind Joey Hockey slogan is the unpleasant reality of a government wishing to attack particular ethic groupings that are overrepresented in claiming welfare. The Census will show you that there are millions of non-traditional migrants brought into Australia in the past 25 years. By far they are not production and engineering workers, nor were they labourers like the older traditional migrants.

When Australia began importing non-traditional migrants, from non-traditional countries in our region, it brought in a cross-section of people closely resembling the occupational class structure of Australian society. So that you have a very large number of non-production workers imported into Australia, working in various services and serving the life style of middle income families. This has also put the pressure on our health and welfare system since they were allowed to bring in with them the non-productive members of their families as well.

So the non-traditional migrants brought in their relatives under an extended concept of what constitutes a family. In that sense, since millions of these non-traditional migrants come from societies where there are no welfare benefits, they are unlikely to feel any loss of these benefits, or claiming to being under attack, or being dispossessed by this government.

It is the race to the bottom for Australian people, in order to integrate Australia to the lower social standards of the countries in our region. The fact that many European settlers live in Australia, coming from the poorer countries of Europe that still recognise the entitlements as part of their rights of citizenship does not enter his mind. Most people like you have a problem of understanding how the Australian government works In theory Government is there to hand over and protect the entitlements to every citizen, not just to the richest and wealthiest of the lot.

If not, then the government has broken the social contract consensus and has unofficially declared a war against a section of its population. Bob Hawke has described Australian governance as pragmatic to the core, which in translation means a governance which is not chained to any absolute civilised norms or principles. Age of Entitlement was brought into this country from Europe and America when the ruling elites of Western countries were pressured to buy off the workers, the militant trade unions, and the general population in order to pacify them, in order to persuade the population to reject communist ideas.

Age of Entitlement was a calculated and cynical measure to create a pacified welfare state in order to civilize capitalism. Now since the Soviet Union is no more Joe Hockey and his gang think they can push society back into the future, back towards the barbarism As Noam Chomsky so fittingly described the type of society that Joe Hockey wants to bring here All you want to do is to free yourself from the bad smell of death and decay that surrounds you!

Tony Abbott's rolled gold PPL is entitlement on steroids. This government is a self contradicting rabble of personal interests and whacky tea party style ideologies. It's high time Australia had a real government rather than the one we always deserve. We only gained this mob because the previous bunch were a lot of no hopers. This lot are, sadly, not much different. Greg, you do say the silliest things. What, if anything, does it mean for an economy to limp?

Perhaps the Labor Fan Club can provide one of their fantastically insightful blatherings. Oh, and if you are going to tell us that unemployment is the greatest contributor to the growth of welfare payment numbers, it would be a good idea to show unemployment figures on your graph. Then people can draw their own conclusions. Finally, didn't you start your piece intending to say something about the age of entitlement? Or were you just damning that Goldstein again?

At risk of being accused of "blathering" and of being a member of your "Labor Fan Club" simply for answering your question, FG, I would have thought a limping economy was a farily apt description of an economy that wasn't going at full pelt, was being hamstrung by various factors, and was just about keeping its figurative head above the water, no?

MJ, what, if anything does it mean for an economy to "go at full pelt",to be "hamstrung" or "keep its figurative head above water? Your anthopomorphism takes you in the same circles as silly words in the article.

What do you mean by "same circles", FG? Does your silly application of geometric shapes to incoming messages mean you have morphed into a blathering member of your Labor Fan Club? Or, am I perhaps appropriating your own assumptions? This is what happens when a person is so wedded to an ideology, and so emotively invested in certain political parties, people and policies - true and balanced thought ceases and we descend into tribal insults and dismissals of hard data. The hardest political position to maintain in 21st century Australia is to be a true political moderate, approving of good policy and people on all sides of politics.

It is hard to do this since it requires a deliberate setting aside of emotion. It requires the cultivation of self-awareness necessary to expunge the habit of reflexively identifying with a label or a party. It requires a conscious habit of thinking through political issues from a set of ethical first principles.

I would commend this approach to you. What a shallow comment dressed up as profundity. Here we see the post modern problem in stark outline. People just don't have time to sit down and go back to fist principles in relation to every issue or problem that comes up in their lives. That is why we have the common law, for example. We tend to use precedent and use evidence of past action.

In plotocs we tend to look at philosphy rather than policy. In general I can say that the ALP will look at things in a clooectivist manner whilst the Liberals will look at things in a different manner. This means that for me ALP policy will automatically be suspect, whlst for you it may not. Of course it is possible that the ALP will act aginst its instincts as it di in the ealry 80s when it put forward policies that the Libs would have followed if they retained government.

There is an old saying: Under Howard wages went up markedly, and not becaus eof the unions but because Howard and Costello added to the good things their predecessors did and got rid of the more leftish idiocies.

No, they opposed all these good policy ideas for purely ideological and crass opportunistic reasons. And Abbott will be forever remembered as the most obstructive and negative PM this country ever had the misfortune to elect. Let's get this clear, conservatives like Abbott rarely if ever have good policy ideas, because they are intellectually and ideologically unable to deal with the complexities of the real world.

They are very good at inventing simplistic slogans to address superficial symptoms of much more fundamental problems. We really need a completely different style of thinking to address those fundamental problems. The Labor party, and perhaps the Greens, are the only political parties in Australia that can provide this type of thinking. Today my electricity account arrived in the mail.

I was absent when the meter reader called, so the account is an 'estimated one'. A call to the government energy provider revealed that it was calculated from the same energy use for the same summer period three months in Tony Abbott stood shoulder-to-shoulder with Campbell Newman, before the Qld elections to denounce the effect of the Carbon 'Tax' on small businesses and families.

Newman returned the favour, standing alongside Abbott here in Qld before this latest federal election, spreading the same lie. I didn't vote for either of these governments, but I'm suffering the consequences What is this "different manner" with which the Liberals see things, Peter?

Can you be more specific? Could it be that this "different manner" of seeing things is why throwing taxpayer money at chocolate tourism, women of calibre, property investors, private schools and wealthy superannuants doesn't appear to conflict with the Coalition's pledge to end the "age of entitlement"? It is sad that, as a lawyer, you appear to have no idea what first principles are. You have described them as intensely time-consuming matters; that actively looking at situations and applying a matrix of principles "takes too much time".

Your alternative appears to take a stereotypical view of the political parties - make a generalisation about their policy approaches one that was growing stale when I was a lad , and to make this somehow a useful meme. Your viewpoint is intellectual laziness masquerading as the voice of harsh realism. First principles are remarkably easy to apply to political policies and behaviours, for those who have cultivated a habit of using them. For instance, "does it harm someone?

FG, how are you going at holding the current government to account? Have you found any lies, misrepresentations or nondisclosure of 'fact' that are worthy of the attention of your acidic and analytical mind? Maybe Hockey is guilty of massive overreach in continuing to claim that Labor left the Australian economy in tatters? Maybe Abbott's PPL is a good example of the continuing health of the 'age of entitlement' when parental leave should be largely funded by employers, not the government.

I sincerely hope you have recognised that the LNP is now the government, and that your self-declared job is to 'hold the government to account'. But I guess your latest rant must have been a mistake, and just a cut-and-paste job from one of your attempts to hold the previous government to account. GOM, I see a number of areas where the government has failed to keep its election promises.

Unfortunately, the Labor Fan Club and people like Greg have missed all of them. That's what you get when you make stuff up. Anybody who describes an economy as being in tatters is being as silly as Greg was to use such words. You did mean to agree that such words are silly, didn't you? As for the rest of your Labor talking points, think for yourself.

That is such a 'limp" comment to a set of facts and figures FG. But I am afriad it is a typical neocon response to reality. Do you deny that rising unemployment would increase the growth in welfare payments? And how will a reduction in income growth ala LNP policy of forcing down already stretched household incomes grow the economy? But hang on- Joe says the age of personal responsibility is here.

Is this not the same guy who told people to "go out and spend: The man does not have a clue-neither does the Goverment- nor you- if the ALP and the Greens do they are not saying, Seems reality is just too hard!! As one wise man said ' the complexiy of the world we live exceeds our capacity to comprehend it". Oh dear Forrest, denigrating the "Labor Fan Club" again, when that isn't the "club" you should really concern yourself with.

The Anti-Abbott club is growing by the day and the latest convert seems to be Liberal MP Sharman Stone, who had this to say about her illustrious leaders. That's right, it's lying," Now that's gotta hurt.. Reinhard, when asked to nominate the broken promises of the government recently, you failed to raise anything meaningful. Want to have another go? Forrest actually you did no such thing , your question was "Is that really the most damning thing you can say about this government?

Mind you, I do like pavlova Reinhard, making stuff up is all very well, but why so shy about holding the government to account again? Identify the policy promise. Go for it, or just keep making stuff up. The choice is yours. Forrest don't accuse me of "making stuff up" without evidence, slander is a poor form of argument, along with a steadfast refusal to face facts.. It's all there for revision if you wish, Greg Jericho's article last week, oh around 1: If it is worse, expect him to point to a worsening economic situation.

And the capital for the RBA? Will it stay off the books till it can be added back into the budget to show a surplus? We really need to upgrade from 19th century accounting to something like the Genuine Progress Indicator. So if we wade ponderously through all this verbage, Mr Jericho seems to be indicating that the treasurer is taking a cautious approach in uncertain times and is seek to abolish rent seeking, which many have been decrying. Sounds like Mr Hockey is therefore doing his job well.

Anyone wishing for Wayne Swan at this point? If you read the article and study the graphs, and then turn degrees and begin sprinting, you will eventually find yourself at the conclusion you have drawn. Go Henry the Moose! Let us all read the article and study the graphs. Thank you for the light and intelligent touch. Hockey hasnt abolished the fringe benefits company car tax rort the money from that in itself could have saved the jobs of the SPC workers then there are billion in subsidies for mining companies and lets not forget health insurance rebates for the wealthy massive tax concessions on superannuation for the wealthy, whilst cutting super for those on low incomes Is it starting to become clear yet who this government is governing for?

It was clear who they would govern for 2 years before they were elected, MT, but still they were elected. As the obstructionist BShorten negative opposition will not pass and relevant legislation in the Senate the Abbott government has done none of those things.

WHy the ALP is so negative they will not even pass the legislation for their own policies they took to the last election. Are they broken ALP promises??? There may be factors that occur that improve the budget bottom line - such as a greater than expected inflation - but that won't necessarily mean a better than expected economic position".

So Mr Jericho, sounds like Mr Hockey is right to be concerned and to be cautiously trimming the sails and managing expectations. Seems to me you are trying hard to paint another picture which disparages the treasurer, but can't quite to get the figures to agree with you. Raising the debt ceiling sounds like the Treasurer expects the ship to be leaking all over the place during the next three years Mark.

On this score alone the Treasurer is doing a magnificent job of disparaging himself and doesn't need any assistance from Greg Jericho, or anyone else.

Eleventy Joe is not showing a safe pair of hands at the helm, is he Mark? Big Joe, the green grocers kid, blurting the ' age of entitlement' is over. Buying houses in Nth Qld and taking bike rides. Abbott, Hockey, Abetz and the other German guy have been sprung telling lies or gilding the lily about Ardmona, no doubt the same could be said of their claims about Holden and Toyota.

Abbott and Hockey have stirred angst about the economy, claiming budget emergency and desperate times. And most know that was crap talk and designed to hide the fact they have no real plans except, cut and cut. Any thing done to us in the budget will be no surprise, they are liars, a LNP member has confirmed this, and they will do anything to the workers and families to bring in a surplus, like Howard they will boast about it but achieve nothing with it.

And still the LNP supporters I'm acquainted with and related to will not see any wrong by this lying rabble of carpet-baggers!!! It's almost child-like to have a conversation with peope like my brother-in-law.

Any mention of fiddling exes by our local member to fly to Cairns and buy property at our expense is immediately countered by mentioning Craig Thomson and unions. He totally refuses to see any wrong in this guy whatsoever. Australia , it seems has lost the ability to have any kind of cogent conversation on policy and as for vision there ain't any!!!!! We are being totally lied to by Abbott, Hockey, Abetz, Cormann purely for political purposes. I have no idea what the pay deal is for the SPC people but from what I've so far managed to glean Sharon Stone is the only one telling any thing like the truth.

She must be really crook at all this to stray that far from the party line and I'd love to be a fly on the wall to hear the rubbish being thrown at her by the LNP minders.

Come on it's The Brave New World It's your fault if you are not one of the successful A Class people. I can't wait for Son of Work Choices to arrive It's amazing to find the post following mine so perfectly proving my thoughts about the one-eyedness of LNP supporters. They will fight smear , lie and struggle to the end but the end is coming for them. Be sure of that. SPC and Sharon Stones comments will ensure this.

One term Tony will however achieve something. He will preside over the complete destruction of the Liberal Party much sooner than I ever thought possible and that will be his epitath. From to I was dismayed at the endless hair brained schemes labor found to throw money at and it's willingness to borrow it's way out of recession. There was always going to be a day of reckoning and It was always going to be left to the LNP to repair the mess it always is.

The real tragedy is the blind faith of the those who never understand how fiscally inept labor can be the fact labor have never been able to deliver anything but massive debt totally escapes them. Crow The m debt we now have could still have been spent. But spent on industry or initiatives that would sustain some advantage long term.

Instead it went into a black hole - the spending blip temporarily saved us. But its money now gone. And still needs be repaid. Schools have facilities that they and their communities use everyday.

Houses have insualtion that reduces their heating and cooling bills so money is speant elsewhere. The NBN infrastructure will last a few decades. The NDIS is delivering quality of life outcomes for individuals that will last a life time in addition to jobs now. They speant to keep people in jobs and building things that continue to be used. The spending particularly in schools reached all areas of Australia and kept money cycling through the local economy.

What would have rather they speant on? A highway, a port? Nothing to do with Swans spending back then. You seem to think the NDIS is up and running???? Insulation - if you believe what you write Hess then you are also happy that 4 people died installing batts. How does a school building built 2 years ago - keep money cycling through the economy now?

And if so good we still need Gonski dont we. Ports - a better idea for long term jobs and income. Workers are injured and killed in construction all the time. But that doesn't make it the architect's fault does it? It doesn't make 'buildings' a bad idea.

I've never thought it was fair that incompetent or shady tradesmen are let off the hook while it's somehow Labor's fault. Ironically, Pink Batts was one of the only things they didn't try to defend. Ironic because it was one of their only good ideas.

Their failures they defended to the end. For starters I would have pulled the school hall stimulus when the RBA told the government to do so in because the stimulus was overheating the economy. Spending and promises to spend without any cost benefit analysis. It has set us up for 10 years of corrective pain.

Well the US and the UK are still higher than that and have been for 5 years. MT Stimulating an economy is fine. But make it sustained. Spend on things that will last time. The idea was good idea. But its direction was poor. We now have not much to show And a big debt. Hello JRM Always mystifying to read posts such as yours. How about extending the period you are presumably analysing, and include the Howard Government.

Let us know who you avoid the fact that the age of entitlement began with Howard. I am always amused or rather dismayed at this type of comment about the previous government.

It appears TA's media blitz and crafty manipulation of the truth is lapped up by many a believer. The wrecker won the spin war. However as a minority government there were many issues which were fully debated and explained and voted for by our elected representatives, TA did his best to derail the debate and great harm to the political landscape. The members who voted included people with a conservative background how applied much thought to how they voted which is more than JRM has given to your comment.

An inclusive government will never be recorded in history as the worst, that title will always go to a majority government with unabated control.

It is very reassuring that the LNP is a minority in the senate but time will tell. Perhaps you can help. When was the last time Labor had a budget in surplus. I was told labor has never produced a surplus in their governing history. Hidi, there has been quite a number depending on what you look at, I looked up the Gov records http: There have been deficits under labour and there have been surplus and deficit under liberal governments.

The real driver is the world economy. Which means Governments of either persuasion need to be open, honest and inclusive when they make adjustments to the countries economic direction. In boom times we should have spare to save which can then be used in lesser times to maintain employment, which is really what the economy, community and business is all about. So whoever told you Labour has never produced a surplus is wrong and this is why spin is deceitful not honest.

I had read a previous article on this forum which laid out this issue in great detail but was unable to locate it. If not for the fiscal intervention of the Commonwealth Govt back in , we'd be in a deeper hole than the UK, where they're are trumpeting a 1.

That's where fiscal austerity will take us. The fiscal austerians will have us circling the drain in no time. Hang on tight, because it's going to be a rough, rough ride, gbe. I can't believe you believe what you wrote how many billions of tonnes of iron ore does the UK export to China. You just don't get how our economy works do you. People patting Rudd on the back for incurring debt should be sending thanks to China for buying our exports.

And then to add insult to injury Rudd completely stuffed up the mineral resources tax and the government actually had to pay the miners. It's also soon to import biomass for power generation. Can you believe that. Importing someone elses rubbish US I believe for power generation!!!!

I thanked God once for allowing me to escape to a saner place but now Abbott and the economic Neandrethals have got into power to bugger up my dream.

PS Can that economic genius Cormann go back to Belgium if he wants to peddle his economic twaddle. I would has at a guess that Joe Hockey probably asked himself while he is trying to come up with a surplus why they shouted down this legislation.

The facts are the likes of BHP, RIO etc brought all there write-offs forward so on paper and under our tax system they didn't make a profit which exceed the threshold.

TA is desperate to repeal this legislation or maybe not? Scan the information carefully when it is available. Regarding labour rates TA and EA recent comments about companies having a backbone applies so they shouldn't look to blame the employees, it takes two parties to sign an agreement. The wrecker strikes again. Oh I get it you think Australia should just keep borrowing like Greece did and eventually get a bailed out.

Not a as silly as it sounds we are just a little country after all and not that bright either so there is a comparison..

Yes but your forgetting total debt for every person in Australia is far greater than any comparative developed country. Making their debt per person 5 times ours. Japan is worse, as is all of Europe. We will if we don't have a plan and direction other than cut waste, cut spending, cut industries and jobs. We will require to borrow very quickly and that is exactly what Joe is doing. So lets create fear and a faux economic budget problem for political spin which hopefully doesn't turn real.

A tangled web we weave on a very slippery slop. Who'd bail us out - Tonga? Best bet would be China, in exchange for land, then you'd hear screams! I take it you mean hare-brained. You know, the ones Abbott and co almost fell over themselves to incorporate into their own policies because they had no ideas of their own?

I was a little disconcerted when Hockey ran this line during the election. Safety net payments are already too low in my opinion.

There's nowhere to go on them. I am a little mollified that his first targets have been corporate welfare and he's not just talking about SPC. My fear was and is the axe would fall disproportionately on the poor. We should pause to note much of the entitlement was the previous Lib government throwing the China tax windfall at the middle and upper classes. With the "age of personal responsibility", does this mean that the Abbott proposed paid maternity leave is off the table?

It was never really on the table in the first place Abbott looking after his rich mates by ripping off the poor. What does he have against unions and honest Asutralian workers? Really, the guy is a millionarie and he wants to cut everyones pensions and benefits? Sep 25, , Sep 25, , 9: Have you heard Tommy Johnson? Sep 26, , 3: This is where the Wolf got his howl. He covered this song as well: Sep 26, , 8: That's the only tune I have. I haven't listened to HW for a long time. There are a lot of cuts on the chess box that I haven't heard.

Almost 80 tunes on 3 cds! Here's a couple I can't stop listening to: His Best to by Muddy Waters http: Sep 26, , Here's some fun decadence: Sep 30, , Oct 2, , Oct 3, , 9: Oct 3, , This guy fits the bill. It's not a book I recommend unreservedly, but it was one of the more memorable novels I've read in the last few years. Some scary blue s grass, from Doc Boggs: And another favorite - Mr.

Oct 3, , 1: It was better than expected, wasn't it? Don't think of it as the American South or Appalachins. Its his own Gothic world that he made up.

I thought it was quite well done. I need to get a copy and read it. Years ago I was thinking of it as a "rockstar" book - there was a line in it where some American rustic refers to the trunk of his car as "the boot" - and I put it down. I do think Nick Cave is a gifted song writer and performer. He's very funny as well. Another one I read after Cave's novel with peculiar similarities to it was Banville's Mefisto.

That one I will recommend unreservedly. Oct 3, , 2: Oct 15, , 3: Various and sundry Limonchiki - Amsterdam Klezmer Band http: Oct 15, , 6: If you're in a more cartoonishly macho mood: Oct 25, , Christine Kittrell - Sittin And Drinkin http: Oct 25, , 1: A disturbingly infectious ditty: Nov 4, , Can't get enough gypsy fusion.

Shantel - Sadagora http: Nov 4, , 1: Nov 10, , 9: Nov 15, , Esquerita - Rockin' The Joint http: He was an idol of this act: How about Jimmy Beck? Pipe Dreams by Jimmie Beck http: Nov 17, , 8: Nov 19, , 8: Ennio Morricone - La Lucertola 6: Nov 20, , Thanks David - time to hunt down the dvds! Here is another classic: And Franco's other classic - Venus in Furs: From The Wicker Man And a morsel of 80s gothic cheese: Nov 20, , 2: Only geezers remember this.

Nov 21, , 1: More 60's nostalgia Donovan - Sand and Foam http: Nov 29, , 6: The unofficial video would be more accurately described as a set of visual footnotes. Nov 30, , 8: Nov 30, , 3: Diamanda Galas Greek-American performer who most definitely fits in here. She recorded Baudelaire's "Litanies of Satan" here in the original French as a performance art piece http: Her whole catalog is worth experiencing, its quite varied.

They are often credited with being the first to blend punk, goth, and country. They sound to me like a hit and run Cormac McCarthy, rotting on the asphalt in Hollywood. Nov 30, , 9: My favorite live band from the 80s! LA punk boiled in Delta Blues. Jeffrey Lee Pierce is dearly missed.

Dec 1, , Oh god, you saw them live I'm boiling in envy now! I hope to find a copy of Jeffrey's book at a reasonable price someday. He is a criminally underrated artist! I suppose we really should add X to this list as well, especially the first two albums I always imagined that the music composed by St John and his partner in Lovecraft's "The Hound" sounded like Zero Kama; ritual music played on instruments fashioned from human bone for the purpose of this album.

Dec 1, , 3: I seldom tire of plugging this act, and this song, particularly: Dec 1, , 7: Oh thats a good one, Frank Tovey was amazing! I saw a guy get Frank Tovey and Boyd Rice to each sign the same NON record multiple times - each time sending snide insults the others direction - too funny.

How about some factrix http: Dec 27, , 6: Dec 28, , Debashish Bhattacharya - Sufi Bhakti Indian slide guitar http: Dec 29, , Jan 14, , 1: Love and a Molotov Cocktail - http: Jan 15, , 8: Jan 14, , 2: Liked that Indian slide guitar tros, and those Flys take me back to a time when anyone could start up a band and play good music This is an established favourite. Samira live, unfortunately - http: When You Smile - http: Slip Inside This House - http: You're gonna miss me http: Truck Driving SOB - http: James with a certain nod to his notable studies in the New Testament Apocrypha the greatest ghost story writer in the English language, and the finest medievalist of his generation.

Join Dr Wakeford and the Rev. Winter evenings will never be the same again… Presented in a luxurious digipak with booklet. One of my favorites from the s: More of my night on the town nostalgia music: Jan 14, , 3: American decadence at its finest, Iggy and The Stooges: I Got a Right - http: Jan 14, , 5: Iggy was really something wasn't he. LS - big fan of the Triple Tree here. Most of the tracks should be up on youtube too if anyone wants a taster.

Jan 15, , 4: Wow, Ben, that Dream Syndicate clip brought a tear to my eye and made me feel 16 again. I could have been one of those kids in that record store in El Toro. I loved that band in its original line-up with Karl Precoda and Kendra Smith both seen here so very much. I guess one could say the music itself was derivative of the Velvets, Television, Jonathan Richman etc. Thanks for linking this-I'll be passing the video on to other people who were part of the scene or wished they were in those days.

Jan 19, , 8: Jan 19, , Thee Headcoatees Drunk and Disorderly: Jan 20, , 4: On a different note: Jan 21, , 5: Jan 23, , 6: Jan 22, , Killer Pussy has made my night. Jan 24, , 6: Jan 27, , 6: Jan 27, , Barney Bigard - Sweet Marijuana Brown http: Feb 4, , 1: Regret to say I have not heard of this band before, although they hail from my homeland Feb 4, , 2: Feb 4, , 4: Huzzah to the 70s Soho flaneurs!

Feb 5, , 2: In the spirit of the OP, "appropriately gloomy and dark": Feb 7, , Dark techno with Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas samples: Feb 20, , 3: Feb 20, , 6: I don't think I have posted this here yet: Here is belated VD post All in all, a great song: Feb 20, , 7: Feb 20, , Mar 30, , 1: Apr 15, , Warren Smith - Ubangi Stomp http: Apr 15, , 8: I love that song!

Have you heard Little Butchie Saunders and his Buddies? Apr 15, , 9: Here are a couple - one straight, one creepy - that are current favorites: Apr 16, , Something Came Over Me http: James Chance and this little no wave diddy all glamed up.

Apr 16, , 1: My nextdoor neighbor with the black afro - throwing eggs against the window in the video was the drummer for this band. He did a stint in Destroy All Monsters as well: Apr 16, , 2: I love the old Kurosawa soundtracks.

If one has seen Inland Empire , Lynch sure knows how to make a Beck song scary as hell. Apr 16, , 4: Apr 18, , 7: I wonder what music Dick Clark is listening to right now? Jun 29, , 1: Jun 29, , Hahah finally someone else who sees the connection between deathrock and decadence. Perhaps this requires it's own thread. In the meantime here's a little ditty by Mephisto Walz I really enjoy: STACCOTTO It is the path of sin that compels our fate And leaves us drowning like the garden Is it surrender that confuses us If not exsistence then departing Is it the ancient soul that crouches low That through the day can never find us In our stealing glances we appear Leaving reflections just behind us The tender hallowed ground still holds us And whisper silence to our ears These frightened winds have always blown us Now only glisten holds us here I think you can watch the video here: Jun 30, , 6: Jul 6, , Jul 12, , Aug 8, , 5: Aug 8, , 6: Aug 29, , Another Hayes Carll, dedicated to our fearless leader and all drunken poets.

Aug 29, , 1: More from Nick Cave: Tindersticks , Rented Rooms: Sep 5, , A box set of Roxy Music should do well in the nether bowels of a debauched libertine's mountain fastness: The brooding Stuart Staples: Sep 7, , Sep 22, , 4: Before Adam Ant became the dandy highwayman, the Ants were incendiary legends of the London punk underground, thought even less likely to get a record deal than Siouxsie and the Banshees.

This track, inspired by Dirk Bogarde's 'Night Porter' and cut from the LP of the same name, gives an idea of their glory and outrage: New Throbbing Gristle CD: Oct 5, , 7: All the posts I've managed to read come down to one thing: Even if you don't much enjoy the compositions, you should agree that his touch and tone are among the finest to be heard these days. I don't myself "do" FaceBook, but I believe that you can hear some of this CD there, which will be a little simpler than finding the CD itself.

Nov 23, , 1: Tulsa Queen, Emmylou Harris http:

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