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Yeah i'd never, ever get a loan for a car, ever. My aim is to only ever have 1 loan in my life, my home loan, and i'm on track for keeping it that way. Ah cool, I was wondering how they'd know what my bank account is, but it makes sense that they'd use my last tax return information. I simply think that people need to take control of their finances and what they buy. I think a lot of people tell themselves that they need something or else their life will be unliveable.

Just because your missus is pregnant is no excuse to go out and upgrade everything and buy brand new. I would LOVE a new car. Am I about to go out and buy it? Because we can't afford it and it is better we put money into our mortgage than a car that would make my life easier.

I am not a martyr, but really - some people have no clue about sacrifice and living within your means. Nice work, me too. I like the plan of dumping all disposable money into the mortgage now, so in 10 years I'll have my house paid and free to do whatever. Just had a look through the tax office's info on the payment Today was a good day.

Is the Productivity Commission good enough for you Obes? Sorry it ain't a backslap for the socialist do-gooders. I agree k is nowhere near rich, but it's enough for a comfortable existence certainly. At least they should. In times of recession people reduce their spending and people with less money reduce their spending more than people with more money, as they have less to start with.

The idea of the hand-out is for it to be spent, injected back into the economy, and as previously stated the government will get some of this back through GST and Company taxes etc.

No, just because you got a refund it doesn't mean you aren't eligible. If you got ALL the tax you paid to the government back, you most likely are not eligible. Actually, in layman's terms, if the ATO ended up with any of your money at all and you fit the income criteria, you can get the bonus.

Why is my income taxed as an individual even though i have a wife at home looking after two kids full time? But yes, you're right, I do need better tax advisor s. Hmm yeah it is pretty arbitrary cutoffs though. It's the most easy and cheap way to do it though.

And yeah infi is right. Plenty of other stuff too. If you put it in the bank you are ruining our economy. Buy stuff that you will need in the future or upgrade some gear around the home. Tequila is just a whinging idiot. I"LL take one wii thanks. I've moved since lodging my tax last year. I think he was talking about his parents. Oh that's right, great, so the When companies were still posting huge profits and the banks were pretending they had little exposure. And everyone was saying Australia will be alright because China was still booming.

Did you provide your bank details for a EFT Tarentagor? If so, you probably don't need to worry. I'm beginning to like this forum. People are starting to defend me against trolls. I am inclined not to believe you pay this much in tax Anyone whinging should donate their loot to the liberal party.

I'm sick of being a student ineligible for Youth Allowance with NO assistance whatsoever from parents AND always missing out on any extra financial subsidies from the govt because of this. Finally, a system that doesn't dupe me of govt assistance because I can't receive Youth Allowance. This news has made my day. So cry foul to someone else! So QLD incidents in public hospitals were nearly a quarter of the national total The statistics are meaningless, simply the press jumping on the bad QLD health bandwagon.

QLD health isn't perfect, but lol at yr quote. He is hard in the 'I am learning teh life experiences in high school and have an awesome outlook in life' stage of his adolescence.

You know nothing about yourself or the world until you leave school champ. He adds more to the economy through his skilled training and lovely personality. We should be bumping up the people that can keep this country afloat. Not pissing it down the throats of peasants! There is other measures of a state's health system besides amount of deaths in one year. If you graduated year 12 this year, by the time you get your degree years later things should be past the worst.

I have no debts, what should I do with this money? D I moved to Sydney for this job, I'm moving back to Brisbane at the end of my 12 month contract to be with my family in QLD for the kids sake and so my mrs can be closer to her family we all make sacrifices in life, some pay off, some don't. It's quite possible that you will double it nearly a I think the suggestion will be twice as much coke and hookers, but hey, it'll be more fun.

I'm sorry fpot I was unaware that spending the last 17 years of your life living in a K household where struggling with money is constant rendered my experience on this subject annulled. It's expensive to send your 3 kids to private schools. And don't try to troll my parents on that decision because if you had any idea of school dropouts and OP rates which, WOW, I do! So how about you realize that not everyone was a drugged up lonesome no-life in their high school years and figure out that I do, amazingly, have some intelligence and worldly knowledge.

I am more than aware I am young and don't have a great amount of both, but i've got enough to form an intelligent opinion, and i'm going to express it whether you want me to or not. You only have fictitious intelligence. Kind of like your sex life huh? You are the wind beneath my wings. I don't get this: My wife does though! I would take a much more literal approach with her wings being her love handles and myself having a bad case of gas. You guys are the wind beneath my You are the black jelly in my period.

You are the flatulence beneath my flabby stomach folds. Doesn't sound TOO bad. You are the carrot in my chunder. You are the cum crust in my sock. You are the sweaty goo beneath my scrotum. You are the cheesy pate beneath my scrotum. Man I love qgl. Us poor sub k earners don't need your friggen pity.

They've just got a cracker of a health care system over there. Don't get me wrong, I've got private health insurance too. But it's good to be able to switch health insurance without switching jobs, vice versa, or choose not to spend money on it at all. Check the ATO link posted previously for confirmation. Clean water, Sewage and garbage men have done alot more for increasing life expectancies then medical folks.

That's what everyone else does with the money. Worst case is surely it'll re-start China's demand for resources and we'll start kicking back up again, right? They could have asked for our patriotism. Something along the lines of 'If this is expendable to you, please buy aussie'.

Yeah actually Ross thats a pretty fair point. I mean if you are going to toss money at people with the whole point of helping the country they should say something to that effect. Rudd is finished he will be gone next election. To me this proves that Rudd is a fool. Lets face it a drunken, blind, chimp with ADHD could have balanced the budget during the mining boom.

The Housing Crisis imo is the single most important issue that needs attention. Giving people handouts to prop up the giant pyramid scheme that is the Australian Real Estate Market is stupidity to the extreme and when unemployment rises we will end up like the Yanks and the Poms. Education, Transport, Health obviously , Energy, Port and Agriculture Infastructure also should have been funded first before this cash orgy.

If there was anything left over after the funding, yeah sure give the punters some tax relief. All they need to do is make the price of houses crash - so they are affordable - without making the price of houses crash - so owner occupiers aren't hurt. Hey i've got an idea.. To make housing aforeable the government could legislate to force the banks to offer discount loans to low and middle income earners - with say a 2 year heavily discounted initial offer.

If people get out of the rental cycle and in to home ownership they will be right. Two years with tiny interest will alloy them to settle in to their finance The banks can then securitise these loans and on-sell the risk to investors - making the best of a bad deal for them. I think she was trying to take credit, but nobody is that silly!

Now, the same house or same comparably built-up area will set you back 10x your salary. The government need to implement dozens of laws to regulate the housing market, including and not limited to: Can you imagine if noone had to worry about the cost of essential services like housing, water, phones, electricity and, gas?

If they're really serious about making lives easier, subsidize a basic cost of gas and electricity in low-income families ffs. Yes, but now every man and his dog has a property portfolio and is renovating and selling, renovating and selling.

I blame all those reality renovation shows. Redevelop that land into entry-level housing. They are in other cities too eg. Liverpool and Manly in Sydney Government makes money off the land sale, employs people directly making new bases, and creates an opportunity for land developers, small businesses and the building sector. They can fix the entire situation by turning canberra into a city. The report, by United States-based property research firm Demographia, compares median house prices in markets across Australia, Britain, Canada, New Zealand and the United States with median household income levels in those markets to build a measure of affordability.

Historically, median houses prices across these markets have run at around three times median household income. Prices over four times median income are seen as seriously unaffordable, while prices over five times median income are seen as severely unaffordable.

Incredibly, 24 of the 27 markets examined by Demographia fell into the category of severely unaffordable. The Gold Coast market was third on the list at 8. Other Australian capital cities to feature on the list include Adelaide 7. The survey notes that Australian house prices have not fallen as dramatically as those in the US or Britain, but warns this is likely to change.

The Housing Crisis imo is the single most important issue that needs attention For those who haven't lodged their tax returns When will I receive the payment? Your income tax return must be lodged with us by 30 June Therefore, when you receive your payment will depend on when your return was finalised.

The first round of payments will commence in April. Those who have already had their returns assessed will be the first to receive their payments. They owe money, so they don't bother. It catches up with you in the end though and then has interest and penalties added on. So you're not going to get away with it. I have just done I think 5 years worth of tax for a client, including old BASs. I warned him about the bill he would get, but we didn't believe me.

Sustainability is the key issue - when things go down they go down for a reason. Not only that, the system that you are describing is essentially unionism which can ONLY result in massively inflated private health fees and fatter CEOs. You need to keep the balance right, encourage people to consider private health, and private health has to remain competitive.

FTR, I have private health cover. Then let commercial industry blossom from research where there is demand but not enough supply.

However ultimately the commercial free market will survive on that. Again, you can't make it too cushy for researchers, you want to encourage them to commercialise. One of the biggest gripes defense workers currently have is that their partners have to work in a city, and if you move bases out like you suggest, they have to start living on base and away from family.

They're going to quit - and at a time when we're trying to drive defense numbers up. So you're just transferring an economic problem somewhere else. I don't know anything about economics. The larger scale stuff is well beyond my ability to comprehend. However, taking money that we've already given them, and giving it back in a seemingly arbitrary scheme to make people feel confident the economy isn't going to tank and their jobs are secure just seems like frivolous, wasteful activity of the highest magnitude.

How much time and effort is it going to take to actually just DO this payment? Hundreds, if not thousands of people will need to be involved to make it happen. The actual sheer cost of just performing the action of the refund is going to cost millions, let alone the effect it'll have on government coffers.

It seems to me the best way to make sure people will have more money at the end of the day is to stop taking it from them in the first place via tax breaks - as opposed to taking it and giving it back.

Scaled increases to the tax-free threshold based on income would have accomplished this with practically no overhead. Also, I just think people will take this money and buy consumer good with it. Sure, you could argue that it might happen anyway, but if it DID it would be under natural market conditions and it would be a lot slower. At a time when people should be thinking carefully about money and what to do with it, giving everyone a phat cheque is not going to encourage wise investment.

Yeh, this is how the USA works, and it sucks balls and everyone hates it, especially after pissing away all that money in Iraq. This crisis is a crisis of confidence more then anything else. As FDR said we have nothing to fear but fear itself.

Giving money back is clever in a few ways. It's not permanent, it doesn't need a hostile senate to agree to reverting a tax cut. It makes every well most punter out there feel a bit better about life It is cash in the hand, if you lose your job and aren't paying tax what good is a tax cut? It can be targeted, tax cuts apply to more to the CEO who gave themselves a payrise then the cleaner they just cut the wage of. Obes comes through with the goods again. Remember Turnbull is an ex-merchant banker from the MAC millionaire farm No, it's the banks.

You, Obes, are one of the people that is making Australia the nanny-state that it is. Are you serious pinky? But on to the second point Who forced the banks to lend the money? Australia the nanny state with its nanny state banking regs is one of the few countries that hasn't had a major bank fold. Maybe there is something to the nannying When her boyfriend kicked her out in one of those crushing scenes Where was she to go, what was she to do she was out on her fanny lolz The nanny named Fran!

Yes, it's the banks. Anyways it wasn't here that's the problem. Our nannying regs that have been developed continuously since Howard was a treaurer in what the late 70s seem to be working. He got relatively wealthy out of investment banking but the big cash cow was when OzEmail was sold to MCI and then later on his involvement with FTR's investments put the cream on top. I want free money and I will waste it on gambling and booze.

Jobs come and go but the chance to spend almost a grand of public money on one night out does not come along often enough. Kevin '07 gone in '11 - Join the Facebook group today! I'm creating t-shirt designs as fast as you guys are coming up with ideas. Please, keep it up, you'll make me rich yet. Yeah, I am serious. Banks make money from lending. Of course they are going to lend.

It's people that need to accept responsibility for their stupid actions that's the problem. Unfortunately there's a lot of stupid people around if you haven't already noticed. This post has been removed. Obes if you have even listened to any of Turnbull's commentary over the past month he has been criticising Rudd for bailing out and cushioning the banks. It's Rudd who is licking the asses of bankers.

Turnbull's alternative policy couldn't have responded better. A measured across the board tax cut allows a stabilising economic stimulus to inject real structural change into the economy, not these one hit wonder sugar hits Rudd keeps insisting on. They do not maintain any real change in investment decisions. Business cannot plan anything if they are constantly waiting for the next sugar hit.

I have to assume Rudd is just a crack addict or bipolar. Far too many people are living beyond their means. Spending more than they own and backing it all up with loans. We live in a world where we have to have things right now. I think it's definitely a banks responsibility to enforce a more strict lending criteria.

Why do they already restrict the amount they will let you borrow on both loans and credit cards. They just need to tighten it up. That's like saying it's a drug dealer's responsibility to restrict drugs to an addict. I think loan assessment should be standardised. Then all banks do is compete on rates and features offset accounts, lines of credit, etc. The problem is that when the gov't tries to do anything it does it ridiculously inefficiently where commercial entities are inherently efficient by nature because their income depends on it.

Until they want ISO and so on that is, then they become inefficient by nature For starters I don't think a drug dealer is the type of person to care. Secondly a drug dealers selling habits is less likely to be managed to law. Either way, I still believe it's the banks responsibility. I sure am mate.

Obes is spot on, while economists will differ on whether a stimulus package is the best way to go Freidmanites and other similar conservatives tend to argue for looser monetary policy , i. The problem with only spending is that it's not quite as effective as tax cuts however it can be more easily targetted into infrastructure that's actually needed. The problem with tax cuts is that particularly in times like this people use the cuts to pay off debt or save it for the coming rainy days when you want them to spend it in the economy.

So neither one nor the other is reliable as a stimulant. So if you're whingeing about the money not going to hospitals and schools, then pay more attention and read the bill when it's tabled because that's exactly the sort of thing they're proposing.

So what your saying is that theres a lack of houses, but people with money cant buy properties to rent as an investment? No moobs thats why I put 'Reduce Negative Gearing' not abandon it. NG was set up to encourage house building which it did Now it is out of whack..

Meanwhile our tax dollars are going towards people who own multiple properties. Now plz understand I think NG is a good idea in principle but like all mechanisms it requires adjustment when times change it doesnt have to be set in stone. Meanwhile build more Public Housing. Thats the way to give the market a 'soft ' landing rather than the whole thing either shooting up or falling in a heap. In fact use the tax money saved and put it straight into housing.

But they wont do that because it makes to much sense. Good on them, much respect. Yeah I agree, though I think the payout would have more of an effect if they deployed it early last december. More chance of it actually being spent on consumer products. The poll on news. Meanwhile build more Public Housing im not sold on public housing.

Infi you have to say that you are a member of the liberal party. But Turnbull's alternative policy couldn't have responded better. If the liberal party decide he hasn't performed well on the issue and all of a sudden have a new leader no doubt you'll be singing about how good he or she is? To me this high lights the main problem with Australian politics.

A bi-partisan approach is needed but could never happen because it would be used as fodder for saying "the government can't make their own decissions".

Banks make money from people paying back loans. It is up to them since it is their money to determine if the loan is safe. I'm not sold on public housing. Yeah, you don't need to go to the UK to see that.

I feel dodgy parking a rental car in those areas for fear that the wheels will go missing while I'm in a house. What's the solution though when you have high unemployment? I'm not talking about professionals who can re-locate - the problem is your factory workers, apprentices, retail workers and so on. The latest estimate is k workers unemployed by The prevention is money into education.

The solution to the problem when it already exists, I dunno. Free money for all! The opposition isn't going to pass it, so oh well - was fun while it lasted. Supporting a very factional party yourself Obes you can't really start nit-picking at the Libs. And this statement is purely speculative and trolling.

Try to hold-back on the put-downs if you can though, please - they aren't constructive. The legislation you're referring too was passed about 20years ago and doesn't even do what you think it does.

The opposition isn't going to pass it, so oh well - was fun while it lasted Err.. The Age article Turnbull, "We know that this is not going to be a popular decision, but it's the right decision. I would benefit with approximately 23 additional cartons of beer.

Just because the Libs are opposed doesn't mean the bill has been rejected. There's still the Greens and independents. Bank gives out money, then they need it paid back plus interest. In my limited economic knowledge, they seem totally different. And it's a retarded comparison anyway. The dealer gives drugs, receives money. Dangerous but game move from the Opposition. Since this particular package isn't targetted at families, there's a whole lot of people who will feel double disenfranchised having missed out on both packages.

The bill may pass the Senate anyway with some mods - the Greens broadly like it and the independents haven't shown their hand.

With the sort of money being tabled its actually hard to imagine the GOv not being able to buy the special interest votes it would need without bi-partisan support. Opposing the bill will only work for the Libs if it doesn't eventually pass. Looking like pricks to some while at the same time being shown as ineffective in opposing the bill is a big hit.

So I'm pretty sure bunnings would be getting my money. No lcd, I've got a home theatre projector: Supporting a very factional party yourself Obes I was a member of the democrats for about 3 years some 15 years ago.

Until I decided I wasn't at all interested in standing on corners handing out flyers. I did vote for them last election to strangely. In the senate I was one of those annoying people who listed all 55 numbers or whatever it was.

I forget who was on top. I do know who was on bottom Family First then One Nation and all its breakaways. So I don't support any party particularly. And if I could be accused of supporting a party it would have to be the democrats and they are so small I doubt a faction would be possible unless you mean one of them doesn't get invited to lunch? Infact I largely dislike partisan party based politics, I think the senate is broken, question time in both houses is a joke.

They are meant to represent the best wishes of their state, not what the party leader wants. The parliment needs more anonymous ballots. That's a pretty significant departure from our Westminster 2-party system Obes. Largely the mechanics of our democracy are fine imo. I'm not convinced that Senators should be thinking about State issues rather than Federal.

There's a whole layer of Government devoted to State politics and issues - they are elected to the Federal Government for a reason. The reason we have State Senators is to prevent population stacking narrowing focus to the south eastern mainland states. Its actually to prevent localised issues blurring the Federal landscape when you think about it: Why then do all state's have equal representation?

Thus making a vote in Tasmania worth over 10 times more then a vote in NSW. Honestly, I would put it in the bank. In other words, exactly what the Gov't doesn't want me to do - not intentionally, that's just what I'd do with it.

I'm with Spook all the way. While I love free money this isn't going to help most people. Just as long as it's not being given to people on the dole. Speaking of the dole. Anyone that's been on the dole for more than 6 months should be cut off.

That's what Krudd is planning on. Whatever money I get will be sent straight to the bills, no economy stimulation from me unfortunately. Yeah, I'm considering using this to help smash the remainder of my uni loan. Yeah but paying bills is still purchasing goods and services. You've just freed up any money that would have gone towards those bills for blowing on pokies and plasmas.

Well nah, it'll be a curvy line.. Starts off with a low balance, money pours in and the bell reaches its peak and then money goes out to be left with no balance. Ah bell curves and for loops , is there anything they can't do.

What concerns me is that if the package doesn't pass because the coalition blocks it, then how long is it going to be until a revised package is submitted that IS approved?

If the important thing to do to save us all is just to spend the 47b not to ensure it is spent wisely, then hand it my way. I'll go through that in 47 days no worries - and that's a thousand times more difficult! The rest is funding modernisation in schools and some is going towards housing. Two things we could build here: A rail link from Shorncliffe to Redcliffe! Those two would keep us going for a good years, employing thousands of subbies, tradies, planners, surveyors, enviro and safety professionals etc.

Plus creating large demand for steel and concrete, machinery and diesel etc. Building lots of houses doesn't really employ that many different people, just a few types of tradesmen. Why would you build a railway to nowhere? Redcliffe is where people go to die. One or the other ;-. Tax breaks and family tax benefits as tax offsets for those who actually pay tax, as opposed to those who don't. I would gladly forgo hands outs if they were to do that.

The Brisbane rail system is a joke. It goes north, south, east and west. How awesome would it be if it went in between those places? There's already initial discussions and planning underway for a subway system in Brisbane afaik. With that solar hot water, does it help increase water pressure because its on the roof? Or does it all just go back down to a thermos like device on the ground? This whole discussion is like the monorail simpsons episode Marge: I think the money should be spent on something the whole town can be proud of.

Like a giant Billboard that says "no fat chicks"? So obviously monorail is the answer to the crisis. However just a heads up, we shouldn't make it using solar power because if we lose control how will we shut it off!

We can just shut off the power! When will people learn? There's a heat transfer liquid that goes to the roof, this runs through a heat exchanger in the water heater. Just some stupid fluid? Obes we've just bored a 12m diameter road tunnel under heritage buildings in the valley and they barely felt a thing. Problem was that tax receipts increased enormously. Swan would like us to believe that this once in a year history was because of his government's actions. But despite this we needed to have deficits.

Fortunately Peter they werent,my Share portfolio and Superannuation have never been in better shape. The Australian market peaked November 1, , at around More than points north of where we are. Overseas investors pushed it there, seeing Australia as providing better value than stretched foreign markets. Those markets largely ran on the back of artificially cheap wholesale funding markets. I can't see us getting back up there again before another reversal.

But I can hope. Australia is not a very small country, on any measure. Our population puts us well and truly in the mid-range category - four times New Zealand or Singapore, three times Switzerland or Israel, double Sweden or Greece. Overall we are about 50th of more than countries in the world. Whenever an author begins by saying how small we are, we just know that he is about to make excuses for failure.

Couldn't agree more Andrew and the author didn't even mention balance between operating cost and total revenue, in any operation costs should not outstrip income. In mid December last year they categorically told us we will achieve surplus in the May Budget, everyone knew by last October that they wouldn't, early April the deficit was going to be 7 Billion, a week later Swan told us 12 Billion, a week later 17 Billion, I can wait to see the actuals in September.

But no Journalist, especially from this organisation take them on over their lies, if it was Abbott Abbott Abbott the bloody sky would fall in. Who would believe Abbott? Abbott, the Employment Minister who presided over widespread rorting in his Job Network and skilled migration system and billion dollar budget bailouts.

Abbott, the Health Minister who presided over his Medicare Plus safety net billion dollar budget blowout, also with widespread rorting. Me over Rudd any day. Todays announcement, lets give the DFRDB pensions people a fair indexation system, after all we've been saying no to them for the last six years and voting down the private members bills.

And Tony Abbott of course has already committed to it. What a joke, anything to buy an election and is it any wonder my local member verballed Rudd so badly before betraying Gilliard and joining his circus. How is he going to explain this latest backflips after all the excuses denying veterans for the last six years.

Well most veterans of course have honesty and integrity in their DNA and wont be bought so easily. Unlike Labor who seem to be throwing all their values to the wind. What a joke, but then after six years of lies and deceit sensible voters are used to it. Oh and the Coalition has already committed to the DFRDB pensions indexing from aged 55 not 60, so Rudd is really not serious in any case. Abbott's plan for the budget emergency is to create a great big new tax, talk about stopping the votes,.

All the rorting of the visas has occurred in the last 6 years according to the Rudd government under the watch of the ALP. Indeed the record year for approvals for visas was under the ALP government.

Maybe that was because we have had 70 front bencers in the last 3 years and no one in the ALP government actually knows what portfolio they are running today or what they are supposed to be doing.

We are also the 11 largest economy in the world. When will the comentariat in this country stop putting us down!!! It is quite correct that Australia's economy is to a large extent controlled by global corporate organisations. The level of control is sufficient to suggest that we no longer live in a democracy, because the government is prevented from implementing the will of the people.

The Keynesian approach suggests that governments can redistribute the impact of the global economic environment and Rudd used this feature to limit the effects of the failure of the current global market economic model. Abbott on the other hand promises a turn around with his presence in the lodge because he knows that much of the downturn in government revenue has been managed by global capitalism manipulating the Australian dollar and withdrawing investment to punish a government that dared to tax super profits of mining companies making super profits while not returning sufficient to the Australian nation.

Global capitalism votes for Tony Abbot through its investment patterns, and in so doing undermines the sovereignty of Australia. While Abbot promotes a "Sovereign Border" approach to asylum seekers, his whole economic approach undermines our "sovereign economic borders".

I never cease to be amazed at the counter logical conclusions in Berg's blogs. Global Corporations corrupt markets, destroy democracy and ensure that a large proportion of the world's population remains poor and form a cheap source of labour. Yes, my observation, too, but they're not done yet or there wouldn't be such an urgency to create more NAFTA like free trade agreements. But or have you to divided your figure by the national population to see how the number looks on a per person basis or does it just seem like a big number.

The correct figure for Federal Government debt is: You are SIX orders of magnitude out. With such an impressive record, I guess you'll be doing the pre-election costings for the Coalition policies. I'd hardly call increasing Debt to GDP ratio from 9. Avoiding a recession and year on year growth is not? What would be brilliant surpluses and a recession? Are you seriously suggesting that the parliamentary wing of the ALP was not contaminated by the fraudsters, thugs and dodgy dealings of the ALP and its bully boys?

More like Detroit and if that means we get to sell Canberra then I am all for it. Useless piece of realestate that has been detrimental to this country since its inception. We should sell Canberra in its entirety. We could then live on the income from our investment. Oh, wait, nobody wants to buy it at any price!

A slave to the two party system till the end The impact on China was delayed due to their own attempts at stimulus but they have sought to become less reliant on exports and build domestic demand. With little in the way of social security it is hard to see them changing the workers' strong saving ethic. Their exports took a hit, so they tried to boost their domestic economy to compensate. The Coalition have no commitment to creating long term, sustainable, well paid Australian jobs.

All Abbott has is his Commission of Audit - mass public service sackings, outsourcing jobs to the private sector, offshoring IT jobs overseas, using skilled migration visas since to undermine local pay and conditions, worthless, vocationally irrelevant work for the dole projects to hide long term unemployment, the Job Network that is more expensive than previous labour market programs, promoting churn, high employee turnover rates with labour hire, short term, casual deadend jobs, green army.

One employment agency wrote this paragraph at the bottom of their ad on 24 Jul If you are on these cases, you are wasting your time and money to get Permanent residency through Temporary Residence Transition Stream. Despite the Opposition, the ALP's amendments to tighten visa regulations passed, and became effective from 1 Jul The reason is that Labor are looking for new scapegoats regarding their financial incompetence and increasing unemployment.

Rusty, I just told you that the ALP passed legislation to tighten visa regulations in both and after 2 inquiries. It's the Coalition that denies there is rorting in the visa system, the Coalition that sat on their hands for 11 years, the Coalition that created the semi-skilled, slackly regulated visa system in the first place 17 years ago in , and always the Coalition supporters scream "Why didn't the ALP fix the Coalition's mistakes?

All of these changes were made by the Labor government plus the introduction of a market wage, and were strongly opposed by a complacent Abbott and Coalition. The Coalition fast tracked visa approvals for the meat industry despite evidence of rorting, local job losses in the meat industry, and the meat industry employers seeking to water down regulations.

The Coalition thwarted the Fairfax's freedom of information request in election year when Kevin Andrews blanked out the names and other details of guest workers killed under the Coalition's visa scheme. The Coalition are committed to fast tracking guest worker approvals in their "northern special economic zone" with its lax IR regulations and environmental standards, and have stated that skilled migration will remain a "mainstay" of their immigration program.

The Coalition are committed to winding back protections implemented by the ALP under the guise of "cutting red tape". Rusty, As for increasing unemployment, we have Liberal state governements in Vic, Qld and NSW to thank for sacking public servants left, right and centre, plus Abbott who has designated 20, public service jobs for the chopping block. Not to mention Campbell Newman's Commission of Audit, and the state Liberal governments outsourcing the public service to the private sector and replacing staff with casuals, contractors and labour hire.

But that has always been the Coalition's mantra - casualisation and the accompanying job insecurity and unpredictability of income that comes with it. And they wonder why consumer sentiment is low, why people aren't spending and are doing more of their shopping online. What an anti intellectual pessimist. Abbott will be tested in paying down the debt in hard times, should he fail that then he joins the triumverate to become whatshisname. Governments have a massive impact on the economy, we did not get here accidently like a tourist.

Tony Abbott doesn't want to debate Rudd publicly at the National Press Club because he prefers to hide the detail of his industrial relations regime, mass privatisation of public assets and his plans to wind back the ALP's skilled migratino amendments "cutting red tape".

Bit hard to debate Rudd's economic policies when he is still inventing them. Rudd is simply trying to force the opposition to release their policies well before the election is announced. He would then set Treasury onto them and invent ridiculous assumptions to build his case, cherrypicking the electorally appealing bits.

Ignore him, he's a charlatan. All governments promise to cut red tape. Don't take them seriously. If Rudd is so desperate for a debate he only has to call the election. The record year for approvals of visas was under the Gillard government. So why did the ALP approve a record number if they thought they were being rorted - ineptitude? Under Keating's highly skilled, tightly regulated migration scheme, we did not have the widespread rorting we have now, and during the 11 years that the Coalition was in government and did not even have a minimum wage, did not even have labour market testing, did not even have any onus on employers or employment agencies to advertise vacancies.

The Coalition's introduction of visas in 17 years ago also coincided with the start in the acceleration of visa overstayers. Keating had visa overstayers in single, double and triple digits, and the Coalition had visa overstayers in the thousands. The Coalition voted against the ALP's recent amendments to the visa system.

The Coalition continue to deny there is rorting in the visa system, and have pledged to wind back changes, sending a clear message to the rorting employers, employment agencies, migration agencies and education providers that it's open slather under his leadership.

OUB, John Hewson had the courage and decency to discuss both his policies and costings in detail during the election. Hewson fronted up for numerous interviews and discussed his policies in great detail. I will never forget how the Coalition completely failed to campaign on Workchoices during the election yet Abbott falsely claims to this day that his government had a mandate to implement harsh IR reforms.

Rudd has told Abbott the election will be held on a Sat. If Abbott is too spineless to debate, that's all the information he deserves. No one has followed his example since, on either side of politics. Why do you expect such charity from Abbott? I don't recall such a claim from Abbott. Not doubting you, just cautious about accepting you would provide such information without the full context.

Secondly, Paul Keating openly debated John Hewson and was upfront about discussing his policies, so it's not like it was only John Hewson being open with the electorate. Thirdly, I despised John Hewson's policies but I have great respect for him to this day for the way he campaigned and opened explained his policies. Fourthly, both parties can have their policies and costings scrutinised simultaneously in head to head debates so the electorate can better evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of both parties' policies.

Lastly, I have never forgiven the Coalition for springing Workchoices on us in when they lacked the common decency to campaign on this major issue at all during the election. Yes we are a small ship as far as population is concerned.

Our exports are what drives this economy and that is why the high Australian dollar has been madness over the past few years. If we are going to export agricultural produce we have to have the currency at levels that make our exports attractive.

Coal is now showing some interest again as the dollar has retreated now that the Reserve has reduced what are high interest rates compared with our overseas competitors. The only reason we are ripping up fruit trees is because of the high Australian dollar and the average Australian looking for a bargain in tough times. How else does one explain why everyone is scrimping and saving?

Except our Federal Government of course. If the interest rates had been lower the dollar would have stabilised to allow exports to continue, retail to grow, building and construction to grow, manufacturing to continue onshore and a lot of Australians may have holidayed in the country instead of overseas all the time. Inflation could have been held under control, by a Labor Government, in the last six years with another accord but they didn't do it.

Instead we have the NBN sucking up badly needed infrastructure funding. You may be able to sell your product overseas but it may take an extra day to get to the Port because road and rail have been ignored over the past six years, with the exception of Albo's dreaming of train sets of course.

Chris Berg making sense! Chris, have you sent a copy to Abbott and Hockey? The Labor stimulus was not a mere scattering however and whatever credit you give to China it remains a fact that without the stimulus we would have been up the creek without a paddle. Mining chugged along the same but they did off load a big number of employees. So let me get this straight Australia was in the middle of a bubble, both a mining bubble, a housing bubble and a credit bubble All government had to do was nothing.

Its the recession we had to have. Kevin Rudd kept the bubble afloat. Housing prices continue to grow unabated, cost of living pressures are again on the rise. I don't place blame on government for the GFC or for getting us out of it.

I do however blame the stimulus for keeping our cost of living bubble well inflated. I firmly believe it is governments role to ensure services eg highways, railroads, power and water. The Howard years failed miserably in this. If both parties privatise everything, there will be no need for government. God help us when this happens. However it is Labor who set the privatisation barrel rolling and Australia has suffered for it ever since.

There are some industries which do not need privatisation. One might also observe that it was labor state governments that failed in this are.

Bob Carr's government for example. Privatisation of public assets on a mass scale is exactly what Abbott has in mind for his Commission of Audit. Howard's Commission of Audit in led to the sale of most of our Commonwealth buildings and them being leased back at inflated prices.

Campbell Newman's Qld government, Costello led, recommendation Commission of Audit led to recommendations to sell public assets including energy providers and ports, outsource government work to the private sector "contestability" , sack thousands of public servants and replace them with contractors, casuals and labour hire employees.

Campbell Newman recently announced he's selling off a public hospital to the private sector. In Victoria, our Liberal state government is issuing 99 year leases on national parks to private developers, "cutting red tape" - making it easier for property developers to overrule council and community objections to high rise, high density, multi-unit developments, rezoning suburbs, increasing VCAT fees for objectors, selling off public land to private developers - public schools, public housing estates.

While Liberal state governments in Vic, NSW and Qld have sacked thousands of workers, they have collectively spent about a billion dollars on labour hire agencies to replace the public servants.

Mate, check your facts first. Queensland was a mess, it is up to the LNP to sort it out. Why else do you think the ALP suffered the greatest loss in Qld history. Because they are just like their federal counterparts. Bligh padded out the public service just to make up her employment figures. That's right - that's for ONE government payroll system. These are just a few of the reasons that the ALP was thrown out of government in absolute disgrace. So much disgrace that the esteemed premier, who did win her seat back, resigned the day after the election.

And you all want this for Australia? Read "Tristans" posts, he is obviously Rudd the Duds intern or is smoking something that isn't subject to tax I'm thinking. Straight out of a Labor youth movement or worse with no conception or consideration of the last six years of Labor wrecking, just admiration for the wreckers. Someone who obviously believes in fiction over fact. Right now the 'Labor youth movement' can't stand Rudd. But Tristan is correct. Libs hate the facts.

Rudd had no part in the pink batt scheme. That was someone else's fault. Rudd had no part in the school hall program. The stuff ups there were also someone else's fault. And his Fuel Watch scheme didn't fail. Petrol prices would have been well down by now, if someone else hadn't stuffed up.

Don't you get it, Chris? Rudd is the messiah. He'll fix all of our problems for us. He is our hero. Every day he's photographed doing something wonderful for us. We love our Dear Leader. I cannot understand why some of my friends see him as a shallow, self-serving media tart who white-anted his colleagues to reclaim the top job. How could anyone say that about our Kevin? Our very own Superman. And at the hands of Superman Kevin, Tabbott and the Coalition is set to lose the unlosable election again.

It will all take place in Queensland where Superman will win back a swag-full of seats because Queenslanders love Queenslanders and their man is back. It seems that your vision is better than Superman's. You can see the future. Could you just let me have the winning Powerball numbers. Perhaps the first time I've ever agreed with Chris Berg The decision to stimulate the economy during the GFC did indeed ensure that we made it through the worst of the downturn relatively unhurt, until Chinese demand came back on line.

Of course it only worked until then, but that was always the plan. The subsequent claim -- by the opposition -- that China saved us, not the Government, was the real con job.

Governments can't decide the way the big winds blow -- but they can see that the infrastructure is in place to maximise the benefits, and see that those benefits last. Stuff like the NBN. The things that Howard and Costello manifestly failed to do, and Abbott shows no interest in whatsoever. It is Keating who introduced the dropping of tariffs which killed manufacturing.

It is Gillard who spontaneously and unilaterally stopped the cattle trade to Indonesia, harming our farmers and enfuriating our Indonesian trading partners. Or it is politicians who do not do enough, like supporting our small businesses and our ability to grow our own food, as we get swamped by cheap imports.

In order to be fair to Labour, it's Costello who introduced the baby bonus which causes some public schools to be full of unwanted, neglected kids who need extra help. No wonder there is not enough money left for constructive projects! Tariffs began to drop under Gough. It was a slow end to protectionism which is something which Liberals should and did support.

The idea to make our industries more competitive and not hide behind a tariff wall. Its consequences are not always something everyone is happy with. Its alternative has been direct subsidies to some industries. Your comments on the cattle trade are old hat and outdated. Not really working all that well though.

Burke, We have animal cruelty laws for a reason. If countries can't abide by it, then the live animal trade should be abolished permanently. There is little doubt that Australia is a little fish by international standards. However to imply that our economy is not important is quite wrong as it the settings, successes and failures impact directly on each Australian's life.

In that regard it's extremely important that policies are set in a manner to assist our financial well being rather than hinder it.

A simple set of questions will indicate a consensus to illustrate the point: The reasons why we object are also contained in the common sense answers When I saw Rudd make light of the debt his mob has accumulated infuriated me and started me recalling all the reasons why he was removed as Rudd I recalled the financial mismanagement, escalating debt, negative policy impacts of poorly though out policy by way of pink batts, BER, Mining Tax, Petro; watch, Grocery watch, the ETS backflip My memory of Rudd then drifted to his duplicity when on one hand he professed support for Gillard and on the other sabotaged her and the Party during the election campaign, a campaign had he not interfered would have Gillard win the election in her own right The memory of his wilderness years were no better.

His duplicity and divisiveness continued to the point where his own colleagues referred to him as being 'a psychopath, a control freak who refused to delegate, in fact this was escalated to an abusive control freak by a US Ambassador, yet others called him a megalomaniac, egocentric Following this MP's resigned and others vowed never to serve under him again.

But most like Shorten, Macklin, Burke,? Perrett who promised us he would immediately quit parliament and for a bi election if Rudd took over , Elis, Plibersek, Wong? So I won't take the risk of having a once described 'megalomaniacal psychopath' leading our great Nation Cherna; Our sovereign debt is the lowest in the world-yet our household debt is the highest.

I would prefer to suffer an increase in our sovereign deficit to that scenario. Like it or not- the world is in transition from the debt funded economy of the Howard years to- who knows- but may be one of less exponential credit and consumption growth. If that transition is funded by Govt debt-so be it- as long as my grandkids still have a roof over their heads and tucker in their bellies.

Rob and Tristan Well then I guess we'll have nothing to worry about. I'll expect Bowen to leave money in the Bank for Hockey as well as a surplus.

I sure would like to default and have Bowen pick up the tab. Apologists for Labor do stretch a longbow don't they? Cherna You really are being quite silly. Have you ever heard of the domino or multiplier effect? It works like this. Your young neighbour has a high mortgage- as most young families do these days, His wife loses her job and he has to take a cut in his wage. They not have the moeny to spend and cannot borrow any more.

They have to sell their home for les than what they owe the bank. We have been duped by the biggest fraud in history and have you no damn idea of what has happened. Government debt CAN be monetised- private debt cannot. Our sovereign debt is not the lowest in the world. I bet there are at least a dozen countries with less.

How was I responsible? I did not run a debt driven economy- I did not allow the banks to flood the market with cheap money- I did absolutely nothing to allow financial engineers to design a financial machine which made a few individuals staggeringly rich and turned everyone into debt slaves-soon to be labour slaves.

I did not create CDOs, credit swaps and other you beaut instruments of credit. How much growth do you think there would have been in the economy without household debt? Its like filling a room with smoke and then blaming those inside for suffering from smoke inhalation. Banks and Governments filled us all up with smoke. Okay John and Burke, what do you think the foreign debt and current account deficit was under Costello?

What's the chance of getting it included in the national education program so there is no excuse for the blind ignorance of our global position on which politicians like to feed. As anything else, the world will be there tomorrow, with or without Rudd and Abbott, and in the same shape and same conditions.

Chris Berg has discovered that the Australian economy is part of the big world economy. I mean, it took 6 bloody years for a Coalition supporter to admit that!

Finally, the GFC will take its right place in the collective conscience of this country But hey, wait a minute, where is the GFC in your article Chris? Hmmm, I knew it was too good to be true Ok, back to the usual IPA pro-Liberal manipulative thing But I partly agree with this, as I also expressed a similar concept in various of my comments: Chances are that there may be international growth and Labor fully deserve to be there after the GFC and the EU debt crisis, they certainly do deserve a little reward Divine justice, shall we?

But ultimately, it's determined by both, Chris! Government accounts for about a quarter of all spending in Australia. Yeah, it will have a substantial effect on the economy.

OK but they have to tax us to pay for it. If they did not spend it, they would not have to tax us. The actions of international groups to force up the wages of Bangladesh workers in jointly dumb and idiotic.

All that will happen is the manufacturers will find another country with a source of cheap labour and you see it ll move. Not withstanding all his or her faults, you find that he tends to do more good than harm. He might be a bad boss but at least he? There are things the Government can control, and things they cannot control. It's true what you say, the economy is open and vulnerable to foreign upheavals. But it is also true that the Government is utterly ineffective in dealing with things which it should be able to control, like unfettered crime in the domestic financial services industry.

Look at the whinging that erupted when people receiving fringe benefits were told they now have to keep a MV log-book. Why were they whinging? Because they can no-longer rort the system. Libs or Labour - I say cut the admin in half. Put the savings towards debt reduction, health and education. Surpluses to a Sovereign Wealth Fund. The so-called GFC enabled a vast amount of outright fraud, embezzlement and catastrophic management and accounting failures, crimes committed in Australia which had nothing to do with conditions overseas, to be simply swept under the rug and ignored.

Chris its good to see that someone else realises we are just a piss pot nation with a lot of minerals and no control over our own destiny ,because others are pulling the strings. Just look at the IT situation where we are continually screwed, the dumping of crap at coles and woolies stores so our farmers can be controlled, the manipultion of our currency by other countries and it goes on. Agree Chris, But it is up to the Government of the day to make the most of the situation in which they operate.

The fact is due to Labor being in cohorts with the union movement and being subservient to the UN on everything from climate change to refugee policy we now have one of the most high cost and unproductive work forces in the world, are now one of the most expensive places on the planet to live and do business, while being internationally uncompetitive in manufacturing and service industries.

Casual workers with no job security have less discretionary income and will often choose the cheaper option out of necessity. Employers have refused to train workers, instead opting to use guest workers to undermine local wages and conditions since They have also deskilled the workforce by outsourcing and offshoring tens of thousands of jobs over 17 years.

Business are burdened with all the extra paperwork thanks to the GST, doesn't make it cheaper to do business. As for Ataraxia below,trickle down economics has been practised in the US since Reagan and is a complete failure. You could also explain why some kinds of workers like IT workers and manufacturing workers get outsourced, so in many cases they earn less than they did 15 years ago, while other workers like lawyers and accountants are immune from this?

You could employ a Chinese lawyer or accountant if you wanted to. Would be worth even less. Chartered accounting firms have been sending accounting jobs offshore for years, and the same opportunities for graduates that existed years ago no longer exist.

Even if the creation of wealth is contingent upon foreign forces, domestic governments do control its distribution. Do we give people with enormous riches more and hope it trickles down with the minimal effect suggested by this article, or do we provide more for the needy? I know which model I'll be voting for. We share some common ground at last oops, sorry, I'll move over here a bit. I think the role of government is largely to redistribute resources.

And photo opportunities, but it's better to concentrate on the former. Redistribute too much of it to the needy though and you have a negative impact on the whole. Which will trickle down to the poor.

Guess who I'll be voting for. Conversely OUB recent history shows that if you redistribute too much of it to those who NOT need it- you have an even bigger impact on the whole. Guess who I will not be voting for. There's a balancing point there somewhere GCS.

I expect I am sitting somewhere to the right of that and you to the left. We will never be able to prove who is sitting closest. But I am not moving. Excuse the bleeding obvious, but you have to create wealth before you can distribute it.

You create it by having multinationals dig holes in the ground. Before you do, you might want to get and see what's really going on. Welcome to join us here in the Gong on Tuesdays and Thursdays nights, just ask one of the many homeless, working poor or single parents heading for wherever we set up depends on the weather.

My observation and that of many I speak to is the "poor and needy" have had it much worse under the ALP. Come and talk to them, there is plenty of them and growing fast, I'll shout you a veggie soup. This ALP is a sham and needs a reboot, having lost all credibility and their "values".

Lost the plot big time and they will not listen until the voters force them to with a No 12 boot up the backside. Well, it is true we need to follow the world's lead, it is not true to say the government can do nothing. The government can choose where to spend the money, it can set the policy for workplace reforms which matters a lot for productivity.

Internally, the policy differences will mean a lot on who gets what, and that will determine what mindset a population would have.

Under Abbott, we will have the removal of unfair dismissal protection, slashing of penalty rates, reintroduction of statutory, non-union individual contracts and a new body to overrule Fair Work Australia decisions. Abbott is also committed to the uncapped, skilled migration scheme despite widespread rorting, thousands of skilled jobs being outsourced and offshored overseas, the thousands of unemployed, skilled Australians on Newstart or work for the dole programs, and is set to wind back the ALP's regulations under the guise of "cutting red tape".

Abbott also plans mass public service sackings and replacement of staff with casuals, contractors and labour hire employees "contestability" as demonstrated by the Vic, NSW and Qld Liberal governments. As the Financial Review reported, Abbott also has an "understanding" with IT offshoring companies that tech offshoring will accelerate under his government. They were still putting up interest rates when the storm was brewing.

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Funny how the Europeans were prepared to give up on austerity so quickly after spending decades going into debt. Any commentator, economist or politician pushing that line would probably be putting it in the barrow they are using for the same purpose.

Don't get fooled again! With luck like Rudd, Gillard and Swan I beg you to give up buying lottery tickets. But I appreciate your thoughts. His argument fits in very well with the standard argument he and IPA take. And that argument is of small government.

By taking this approach in his argument he is basically still arguing for small government and for government to stay out of the way of business. And if the government can not make any difference by its policy measures to support the Australian economy, than from his ideological perspective government should get out of the way of business doing what business does best. The fact that this argument of Chris's of the Australian government not being able to do anything because it is international factors affecting the economy is baseless.

Yes there are certain limitations attached to the influence of any one government on their own economy. We are part of the global economy so we can't deny that fact. But there is still much that a government can to do to improve the economic wellbeing of its own economy. In fact that would be no different than saying that business is overpowered by what goes on in the global economy. And that it like saying that it can't do anything to improve its own chances of competing in that global economy.

This, of course is a lot of crap. And no good business would accept that as an argument of how to do business. Of course government can do lots of things to ensure that their nation is able to compete in the global economy.

And to do that of course means investment by government as well through partnerships with business. It means investment in services and infrastructure. And that has been what the government is doing by investing in education, skills development, health, and of course infrastructure in the form of the NBN, transport etc. All of this is needed to underpin any first world economy and first world society. But of course that is something Chris and IPA don't believe in.

I think you are a little unfair to Chris. Sadly we don't hear much of this kind of honesty from the right of the political spectrum neither do we from the left either, but we would not expect it from the left either - we should expect this from the right. I find reading this refreshing in comparison to most of the tripe we have served up daily by those suffering from mind-melding with either colour of our political elites.

Mind you, I do note Chris' somewhat hypocritical position on keynsian economics - that only Chinese keynsian economics works! In truth Keynes vs Hayek is a debate that doesn't really go beyond economics grownup economists always have a bet each way.

Actually that is probably right in Australia's case. Stimulating the chinese economy through debt pushed money straight on to Australia's export industries, federal and state income streams, and into the wider Australian business sector. There is a similar theme expressed that keynsian economics pulled the US out of the 20s depression. It was the enormous demand of WW2 supplies by the Europeans that finally dragged the US economy out of depression in the late 30s and then turned it into the dominant manufacturer of the last part of the 20th century.

To be fair, Chris was talking about the scale of the Chinese input. C'mon dudes, read the piece and try a little harder to deal with the article instead of the man. Hayek and Keynes were simply human beings and, as far as I know, they never met. Lumping these two competing discipliunes into the one category of "economics" serves no purpose.

The fundamental disagreement between classical and neo-classical economics comes down to a disagreement over the nature and source of wealth or "value". According to classical economics, the value of a commodity can only be increased when human labour power is expended in an activity that makes the commodity more useful.

According to neo-classical economics, wealth or "value" is created by entrepeneurs taking risks. Exactly how this behavour creates wealth is not explained - the contention is treated as an article of faith by neo-classical economists.

The big problem for the neo-classical economist is that their predictions of what will follow from any specific action are inevitably wide of the mark because the assumptions upon which the predictions are based are, themselves, without foundation. The big problem for the classical economists is that the implications of the "utlity theory of value" include the fact that capitalist economies are fundamentally unstable and, when disturbed from equilibrium, will tend toward greater divergence rather than stability.

This is an unpalatable conclusion because it implies that it would be impossible for governments to ensure economic stability in the context of a capitalist economic system and that disasters like depressions, recessions and famines are, therefore, inevitable while we persist with capitalism. In other words, although both logic and historical experience tell us that the classical economists were right all along, most of us prefer the ideologically-driven nonsense spouted by the neo-classical school.

Human beings are complex things. How many of us instinctively ask "god" to bless a sneezer to keep their soul in even though we know that there is no god and that your soul is in no danger of ejection from sneezing? If we were truly rational beings, there would only be one school of economics and the Hayeks and Friedmans of this world would be seen as silly shamans. Voters like to assign blame and give credit for things that are actually outside any domestic politicians' control" Unfortunately, this has been explained countless times before to the legion of conservative barkers who infest pages like this, but without success.

So whilst I congratulate Mr Berg for stating the bleeding obvious, I commiserate with him over the number of idiots who will undoubtedly be drawn in to having an argument with his conclusions. This can be thwarted by manipulating our own monetary outcome. Who says we have to borrow on the open market. Supply and demand is just that,but gambling on stocks is for business not banks. Also these same bankers are doing massive land grabs globally,easy to Google up the evidence. The Abc still does not want commenters to put links to prove their points,why?

The link policy probably relates to their interpretation of fair dealing. But it is odd when they refuse to post blogs which contain links to their own stories. I presume that comes down to an editorial decison on relevance and ABC groupthink. But those posters who imagine Australia to simply be a victim of foreign corporate bastardry are kidding themselves. When I snap my fingers they will wake up. What is the date Bighead? Snap your keyboard onto it. What is date relevance question about?.

Bighead, You can go to pigsarms. Even though I have absolutely no clue what this has to do with what I wrote, I'm still grateful for the company BH. Cheers MJLC,my relevance to your post is that about domestic political control. So they do have control there.

Once a country has no more assets to privatise the Banker controlled rating agencies drop their credit rating like a hot potato. Admittedly it's a long bow with what I'm babbling about, but as I've drawn more than a few of those in my time I'm happy to have you aboard - you'll get no significant argument from me regarding that particular message.

Read 'Confessions of an Economic Hitman' by John Perkins or you tube him and you begin to see in a very different light how countries like Ireland, Greece, Italy. I you don't believe me, just take a good hard look at the corporate largess in the upcoming secretive "trans-pacific partnership" that Australia will be a signatory to.

There are over of these lawsuits per year now. For example - Phillip Morris has sued Uruguay for putting health labeling on their cigarette packets These companies are also selling the results of these law suit case outcomes to 'investors' in a new kind of derivatives numbers. Time to read up people! Both sides of politics want to sign on except the Labor Party said they won't sign the investor v state legal clause which unsurprisingly is the key element of the whole deal.

Abbott will not only sign up for it but wants to fast track it too. Throw a TPP with legal opportunity in the mix and what do you get? GMO being legally forced on Australia? And that's just one potential example. Many more to come. I am with you Bighead , there is the Iceland method that non of these UN globalists want the masses to wake upto.

The sad thing is that this presents a slightly false picture. But the figures were "skewed" by the extraordinary decline in poverty experienced in several Latin-American nations.

All of these nations are members of an international initiative called "The Bolivaran Project", which seeks to replace "free" trade with fair trade and the monopolistic markets tolerated by western nations with genuinely free markets that work against, rather than toward, monopolisation.

Countries like Cuba, Venzuela and Brazil are becoming eocnomic powerhouses largely as a result of their investment in the people. They can trade without losing most of the value of what is traded to hangers-on curency traders, futures traders, bankers, financiers and other spivs as we do in the west.

The result is a more efficient economy and a happier population. Perhaps we should be looking closely at what they are doing right.

The latest thing a "domestic politician" did, was alter the arrangements with a tax, this alteration FBT cost several hundred people their jobs and effected some , taxpayers. The automotive industry was, and probably still is the biggest single employer in the land. And people don't think domestic politicians can effect the economy!!!! MJ I thought you would be across this The bit about " Neither Mr Berg, nor myself, are talking about every pointless, nit-picking example good folk such as yourself can dredge up - just the "big ticket" items that CLEARLY are the result of forces far more powerful than those attributed to any deadbeat politician of whatever stripe.

Try reading the article again Cus - you seem to be becoming bogged down in minutiae. Did several hundred people really lose their jobs. I saw some threats being made and some huffing and puffing but I don't think I've seen any media follow-up on whether people actually lost their jobs.

And even if they did lose their jobs after the statutory method was dropped in favour of the log-book method, it must have been a pretty tenuous business model the "employer" was operating!

Why's the sky falling now? The demise of benefits for subsidised motor vehicles is another nail in the 'middle class social benefits scheme'. I look forward to the demise of negative gearing, tax benefited superannuation schemes and other such rorts that do not add add an iota to the GNP but just provide employment to the useless third of society. No exisiting lease-holder will be affected at all by this minor change. The only people affected will be those who enter into new lease agreements and, as they are aware of the new arrangements, are in a position to judge whether a novated lease representes value-for-money in their individual circumstances.

While it is true that ONE leasing company has let some staff go, the vast majority have remained entirely unconcerned by the change because, even when it is made, it will only negatively affect those who are rorting the system by claiming FBT exemptions to which they are not and have never been entitled.

As most people using the system are NOT rorting it, they will notice no real change apart from having to keep a log book for a few months every five years.

For the millions of Australians who do not have access to salary-sacrifice arrangements, the reform will ensure that they no longer have to subsidise rorting of the FBT system.

Are you really sure that you want to be sticking up for the rorters? Forget it, v, on the FBT issue 'custard' is not for turning.

It was a small rort then, but thanks to creative manipulation and sales drive by the companies providing the salary packages, it is now a major rort. It needs to be shut down. Hint, custard, I don't like subsidising someone elses private use of a motor vehicle. Heealth services is biggest at Motor vehicle and parts manufacturing is only 0. In fact, the value of the dollar has a far greater impact on this industry than some tinkering with a tax dodge. Didn't you get the ALP propaganda memo?

If the economy is going good, it is because of Labor leadership. If the economy is going bad, it is because of Tony Abbott. And if the budget situation worsens, it's because of revised global conditions and Tony Abbott. Do not forget the Coalition propaganda memo: If the economy is going well, it is because of Coalition Competence.

If the economy is tanking it is because of the ALP. And if the Budget situation worsens then it is because of global conditions and the ALP. I think you missed Chris Berg's Point - we are so small we catch cold when the U. Except when the USA, Europe and Japan sneezed in Australia was one of only two developed countries that didn't catch a cold.

You mean the mining industry that laid off staff when the GFC? Perhaps you really mean "thank the Chinese for that". The mining industry couldn't have done ot without them. Perhaps now you see the point of this article? But we all know now that the LNP is only talking about government debt. Not the worst type of debt, which is private debt.

The LNP lets the banks go on a private debt borrowing binge that the taxpayer is ultimately responsible for as the government is required to guarantee the banks and will be likely to be required to bailout them out after an external shock has caused them to fail.

And we now also know that government debt is better than private debt. Because government debt is typical denominated in Australian currency where as private bank debt where the money has been borrowed from overseas is often denominated in foreign currency. It should be obvious that it is better to have as much as possible of our excessive private debt levels denominated in Australian dollars not foreign currencies.

Hence part of the rise in government debt under Labor has been to shift foreign private debt held by the big Australian Banks to the Government Balance sheet denominated in Australian dollars. But people should not be fooled, Australia is still in a very precarious position thanks to the enormous private debt levels generated by the big Australian Banks during the Howard and Costello years. Machiavelli's Cat, the decision to guarantee bank deposits up to a certain level was necessary, not because they were in any real danger, but to stop some panic that was creeping in to the market.

It was a good decision as it didn't cost anything to the Government but gave peacer of mind to many smaller depositors. At the time there was a series of investment funds that were freezing withdrawals and there was a fear that people would panic and get cash out from where ever they could.

There is nothing wrong with private debt, Joe, as long as it remains private. If I have a mortgage on my house and can meet the repayments, then no problem exists. If I then run up a balance on my credit card, but pay off the balance, then still no problem exists.

But if I don't buy a house, then the builders don't sell it, and they do have a problem. If I don't use my credit card to buy petrol, or some new clothes or groceries, then the retailers have a problem.

As long as my ability runs alongside my capacity, there is no problem. The problems arise when I am saddled with a debt I did not incur and have to pay it from my unchanging income - or worse, my non-existent income.

This happens when Governments run up debts but expect individuals to meet the obligations. That has just hit 3, people in the finance industry who have lost their jobs due to the FBT changes. That was a simple exercise. Bowen changed the tax regime. And when people lose jobs they don't buy petrol or new clothes or groceries. Your example about bank borrowings is off the mark.

Borrowings by banks are not private debt - they are business debt, and completely different guidelines apply, even though the principle remains unchanged. If a business borrows within its capacity to repay, there is no problem. But when an external factor beyond the control of the business intervenes, then there is a problem.

Going back to the FBT question, it now seems that at least , new cars will not be sold because of this change. Now you can add thousands more job losses in the car yards, sales offices and service divisions to those 3, in the finance sector. All of these problems have arisen from Government debt, not private debt. I find the hysteria about tightening the FBT rules ridiculous.

The idea behind them was for people using their vehicles for actually working - Tradesmen, sales people, managers going from one worksite to another, etc use their vehicles for "work", not commuting. A fair tax deduction. What would have been better was if the deduction was only available for Australian built vehicles unless it could be shown that the required vehicle was not available from local manufacturers. Imported passenger cars would never meet this criteria.

Overall, this would have been a boost to local manufacturing and improved our balance of trade. Sadly, this never occured. Commuting is not tax deductable. To use a new vehicle purchase to actually dodge tax under a salary sacrifice scheme is not an appropriate or fair use of that process. Most Australians could not access a Novated Lease if they wanted to do so. So these schemes were only available for a relatively small number of taxpayers. The tightening up of the rules, requiring those on such schemes to use a log book to justify their claim is only fair.

Why should the rest of the taxpayers subsidise this select few? What long term effect? Well, those needing a new car will still get one.

Some may opt for cheaper models, or less accessories. Some may postpone their purchase by another year and some may opt for second hand vehicles. Those that do this were clearly not genuinely buying business cars, but taking advantage of tax loopholes. I have to wonder at an industry consisting of financiers, tax accountants and lenders whose main modus operandi being a tax loophole. How many sales will be lost? As many as there are people rorting the system.

Given Holden has just taxen yet another injection of taxpayers money and still won't guarantee their Australian manufacturing for more than another 9 years, I don't see any real problem. The time of Ford and GMC Holden manufacturing in this country is over, they will be leaving these shores with sacks filled with Australian taxpayers money, to be used to set up factories in more 'economically viable markets'.

If you want evidence of this I suggest you look at the closing of production of the Ford Transit van also heavily subsidised by the British taxpayer in England.

Ford is moving its production to Turkey of thsi iconic vehicle. The FBT changes are part of an attempt to make savings and improve the budget bottom line. Basically shifting costs from the taxpayer to the individual. Do you support this approach or would you prefer the goverment to continue distorting a market and racking up debt? You can't have your cake and eat it too.

John, nothing wrong with private debt? Mortgage defaults and foreclosures that came with GFC were not cause by government debt. Private debt is a massive problem, and will be even worse once we are in recession next year due to the massive spending cuts that are coming. You didn't read what I wrote, did you? I'll refresh your memory by a quick cut-and-paste from my entry above: The mortgage defaults and subsequent foreclosures were, in the main, due to faulty lending practices by the banks and other financial institutions, and were therefore not failures of private debt but of mismanaged business debt.

Australia is one of most highly leverage countries in the world, a small recession would be a disaster with all the private debt on homes that are not worth what people are paying for them.

Just a matter of time. I am talking in a broad sense, not your limited view. Source please, for this amazing statistic. A very simple solution And did you get the Liberal propaganda memo? If the economy is doing good, it's because of the structural reforms of the Howard government.

If the economy is going bad, it's Labor's fault. And if the budget situation worsens, it's Labor's fault. Agh the Labor cronicles at it again, blaming all but themselves for the massive debt they have incurred and expecting the problem to fix itself.

It wont, and Rudd the Dudd's time has run out. Reality check "Tristan" because you need one. Labor has amassed a massive debt that is now requireing the equivalent of the entire annual budget for the "Department of Defence" and some just to service the interest on that debt and not paying down any of the principal.

My super-annuation entitlements and other earnings attract the maximum amount of taxation and will for the rest of my life. Just an average joe, I've always contriburted to my super-annuation paying tax on the way in and tax on the way out so don't give me any dribble about concessions either way middle class welfare.

Hah, who is this middle class welfare, because I will never qualify for an old age pension neither my spouse because we planned for our retirement and at the end of the day are not rewarded for that.

I'm guessing I should have purchased that extra house, boat, carton of booze, case of wine, joined the golf club, etc etc along the way so I wasn't so cashed up at the end of the day and could bludge off the public purse.

But then, what about them poor buggers who Rudds Razor gang must surely be targeting now, or is it I'm in for another shafting by the socialist dictator who has caused the problem in the first place. Gotta love the Labor Party faithful, but over my voting and working lifetime have learned to hate them. Good luck with yourpolitical alleigences 'Tristan" because no doubt Rudd the wreckers lot will catch up with you to.

The extra house and boat count as assets for centrelink pensions. If you don't qualify now then buying the house and boat would have made no difference. Try and live on the pension Frank, its barely enough to live on. Debt is not massive, private debt is the real worry, and will be next year when the recession hits. An interesting rant Frank, unfortunately you've managed to completely avoid the point of both the article and the valid points that has Tristan made. You've also made the mistake of ignoring the effects of the GFC and are making the common mistake of confusing economic management with budget management.

For the record I'm not faithful to any party, blind ideology is a pretty dumb way to decide one's vote. Government coffers are still paying the price now because the Coalition opposed the original mining tax which would have raked in billions of dollars, and has left both sides now scrambling for alternative sources of revenue.

Many economists criticised the Coalition pork barrelling the electorate, especially during the and elections and squandering the opportunties offered by the mining boom on uncapped, non-means tested middle class welfare.

This was started by Keating and continues today from offices in Canberra to offices of the PM in Sydney. Please detail all this debt you infer the Commonwealth government had in ? Facts and figures please. Where is the money?????????????????????????? Hasn't it been Tony Abbott and Joe Hockey has been deriding the economy has been in the tank the entire time and it was Rudd and Gillards fault?

And what's good is leftover from the Howard legacy? Please don't throw stones in glass houses. You bet what is good is left over ifrom Howard and Costello. Take the Future Fund for example into which funds from budget surpluses were banked. Hence the FF no longer meets any where near enough proportion of the superannuation costs of the public service and the money will have to come out of gegneral revenue like the interest bill on the debt etc. It was set up with SOME of the proceeds of the sale of Telstra and, as such, stands as a testament to the Howard governments failure to deliver on its promise of a modern, high-speed telecommunications network that was supposed to result from the sale.

Besides, it is miniscule when compared to the huge boost to national savings provided by the Superannuation Guarantee Levy. Had Howard simply continued the SGL policy, increasing the employer contribution on the timetable set out by Keating, the extra funds accumulated would have effectively doubled our national savings and placed us in a much better position to meet the challenges of the GFC.

Howard's decision to abandon national superannuation and to encourage unsustainable, debt-driven consumption as a way of pump-priming an overheated economy placed Australia in a very vulnerable position in the lead-up to the GFC. Without prompt action by the incoming Rudd government to prick the inflation bubble, we would have been in dire straits.

But this is not surprising. This is how it has worked in Australia since the days of Bligh and MacQuarie. Progressive reformers striving to build a modern, independent society and whingeing tories trying to wind back and frustrate reforms already in place. But then then Coalition have never been about supporting Australian jobs.

Labor has an appalling record when it comes to managing the economy and wether it's state or federal politics when they leave office they always leave a huge mess behind.

James G, "Labor has an appalling record when it comes to managing the economy" Labor elected to governemnt after twenty three years of economic stagnation in which most of the manufacturing industries set up by Chifley dissappeared and those that survived were so heavily protected that they had become hopelessly inefficient. Whitlam government introduces the Trade Practices Act, drastically reduces tarrifs and starts the process of internationalising the Australian economy.

The world experiences the "Oil Shock" recession. Whitlam initiates a stimulus program and maintains employment and economic activity while simultaneously initiating major infrastructure projects to improve livability and health in our major cities and to upgrade our crumbling schools infrastructure. Abolishes wage indexation and prohibits wage increases.

Living standards plumet, poverty soars, bankruptcies shoot through the roof and Australia falls into "stagflation". The rest of the world has recovered from the "Oil Shock" and is growing strongly while Australia continues to languish. Hawke government elected and immediately replaces the wage freeze with The Accord. Productivity soars, incomes grow and the recession ends.

Hawke and Keating engage in a major modernisation of the Australian economy including the floating of the dollar, independence of the Reserve Bank in setting interest rates, revamping consumer protection and forcing greater competition in the economy, introducing universal superannuation, reviving Whitlam's efforts to internationalise the economy and reviving the crusical car manufacturing industry.

By , Australia had a small but growing IT export industry and was fully engaged with the world economy. Keating was chosen by UNBIASED international commentators as the best finance minister in the world an honour shared by only one other Australian - Wayne Swan and our economy was considered to be in excellent shape with unemployment, interest rates and inflation all trending sharply downwards.

Immediately slashes government spending, initiating a surge of job-shedding in the economy. Unemployment rises so steeply that Vanstone orders the ABS to change the definition of an unemployed person in order to keep the numbers down.

Sells of Tesltra, promising that the new private owners will construct a world-class high-speed telecommunications network and we all know what ACTUALLY happened, don't we. Continues to sell off strategic assets to fund shortfalls in revenue caused by contractionary economic policies. Great post, Zing - it really shows a deep understanding of economics and an appreciation of the vagaries of the world economy.

I gather, though, that you are actually agreeing that NEITHER side of politics has any real power to make large scale impacts on the Australia economy? Lost of talk but no real clout. Or is it that the economy can only be "good" under the Coalition and "bad" under Labour? If you are trying to suggest that only one side of politics plays the rhetorical blame game then you have your head in the sand.

That's the pitiful game! Not sure I agree with all of this. I am of the opinion that our Governments, regardless of their persuasion, can do little to dramatically improve our economy, ostensibly for some of the reasons outlined by the author. However, I am also of the opinion that it is well within their power to bugger up the economy. This is underestimated in the article. It did not work for Argentina, Germany, Indonesia and others. It seems to be working now, except that the money printers will never pay off their debts.

That is the lender's problem China. What puzzles me, is why we are not seeing rampant inflation as we did on all previous occasions. It may be because we can all buy cheap products from China, Bangla Desh etc But how long will this continue? And you didn't get the one where the Liberals say interest rates will always be lower when they are in power?

I take is a given that Australia's economy is small and government can only do so much but I do not accept that the efforts of Labor during the CFG did not cushion the impact of what was happening across the world.

If government didn't have an impact then why bother with the Reserve Board's raising and lowering interest rates? And why haven't we had a recession since what was it ? Our economy is not as easily turned as the leaders would like said but government is also not powerless to impact what is happening. What happens in China is only one part of a much more complicated picture and Chris should know and acknowledge that fact.

I always thought Howard was right about this, because of banks having more confidence in his government than in Rudd's or Whitlam's. This is still true, but we now have a central bank which responds to a weak economy by reducing interest rates. Since Rudd, Gillard, Whitlam always give us a weak economy, this seems to give us lower interest rates in consequence.

Not sure this is the right way to do things, but it does seem to be happening. So perhaps Howard was wrong, but not in the way any of us expected. I though it went like this. Things are crook because this is a bad government. And the only reason things are going so well is because of the Howard? Costello legacy and the mining boom. Problem was that tax receipts increased enormously.

Swan would like us to believe that this once in a year history was because of his government's actions. But despite this we needed to have deficits. Fortunately Peter they werent,my Share portfolio and Superannuation have never been in better shape. The Australian market peaked November 1, , at around More than points north of where we are. Overseas investors pushed it there, seeing Australia as providing better value than stretched foreign markets. Those markets largely ran on the back of artificially cheap wholesale funding markets.

I can't see us getting back up there again before another reversal. But I can hope. Australia is not a very small country, on any measure. Our population puts us well and truly in the mid-range category - four times New Zealand or Singapore, three times Switzerland or Israel, double Sweden or Greece.

Overall we are about 50th of more than countries in the world. Whenever an author begins by saying how small we are, we just know that he is about to make excuses for failure. Couldn't agree more Andrew and the author didn't even mention balance between operating cost and total revenue, in any operation costs should not outstrip income.

In mid December last year they categorically told us we will achieve surplus in the May Budget, everyone knew by last October that they wouldn't, early April the deficit was going to be 7 Billion, a week later Swan told us 12 Billion, a week later 17 Billion, I can wait to see the actuals in September.

But no Journalist, especially from this organisation take them on over their lies, if it was Abbott Abbott Abbott the bloody sky would fall in.

Who would believe Abbott? Abbott, the Employment Minister who presided over widespread rorting in his Job Network and skilled migration system and billion dollar budget bailouts.

Abbott, the Health Minister who presided over his Medicare Plus safety net billion dollar budget blowout, also with widespread rorting. Me over Rudd any day. Todays announcement, lets give the DFRDB pensions people a fair indexation system, after all we've been saying no to them for the last six years and voting down the private members bills.

And Tony Abbott of course has already committed to it. What a joke, anything to buy an election and is it any wonder my local member verballed Rudd so badly before betraying Gilliard and joining his circus. How is he going to explain this latest backflips after all the excuses denying veterans for the last six years.

Well they predicted they would get as low as 3pc. And they are expecting at least 1 more drop. I'm with commbank sitting at 6. Just hoping they are going to reflect todays drop. I do own a property mortgage. I lolled, a few weeks ago that wasn't far off how I lived - as soon as i found out i'm going to be a daddy, i'm left having to figure out where i'll be cutting back and to top it off, we wont get the baby bonus - so no second 60" plasma for me: P We aren't even married just based on cost of getting married.

Only people we know that are married their parents paid for it except for one couple who did a great job with their modest wedding and kept their costs Our priorities are house, kids, wedding in that order.

So far we are not achieving any at a great pace. We are happy, enjoying life, saving money. We've been overseas once although it was coupled with a business trip for me so at half the expense you would expect. If it wasn't for that we wouldn't have traveled either. The fact that it's always an issue worth talking about with everyone I do continue to believe there's an underlying problem.

The lifestyle that the previous generation were able to enjoy which I grew up in is simply not available unless you are a significant earner, preferably dual income.

I heard that they may drop it another. We paid for it all ourselves. Spending a third of your life sleeping, a third of your life working, and the other third too poor to do anything exciting or fun sucks. Don't get me wrong. But making a sacrifice for a few years to make your family unit stronger is worth it in our view. Some times you just need to suck it up and get on with it and worry about it later: When the kids go to school and we don't have to pay child care any more I can go back to work.

My pay can go straight on the mortgage and kill that off 10 years earlier or more than expected. I find them a bigger pain than mortgage stress last edited by Kat at I find them a bigger pain than mortgage stress I definitely agree with this. I see plenty of people like this because of my industry. What is more nauseating to me is because I have been independent since I was 18yo I cannot stand people who rely on mummy and daddy to help them out with money.

Well done on your wedding that is really great going. We are aiming for that kind of budget as well with a similar number of guests so I hope we can manage it as well as you clearly have. You are lugging around people - you do NOT need a 4x4 to take your kids to school. As for your kids being safe in a 4x4? Many Aussies cruising Luckily for me. I don't have a family yet, nor a house, nor investments. Just credit card and car loan. I pay rent and I am only earning about 60k a year which is plenty.

I know many others in the same situation who will not be hit by this at all considering they keep their jobs. Young professionals like myself, eat ya heart out! But no you'll come up with excuses as to why you possibly coulnd't make the sacrifice. And there you go, that's why people can't afford houses; they're not willing to make big enough sacrifices. If you pay tax, earn under k, you get money.

Im a bit confused as per my situation above will I get this cash hand out? I couldn't imagine so Family Tax Benefit part A only applies if you have kiddies. And neither are the costs associated. More for younger children. Has anyone managed to find a page documenting the payments and requirements specifically?

I work to live, not live to work. Bingo, we have a winner. Especially when you have running costs on top. I am talking about you referring to the generation before us not having to work as hard So we should give money to the miners who lost there jobs hey?

The same miners who enjoyed a massively inflated salary for years on end during the good economic times? What happened to all of that money they earned? There are alot more unfortunate people in this economy than the miners. Your sx was a money pit because it was a sx, not because it was a 10k car. You choose to buy a car that is expensive and you justify it by saying you need it for your kids and it is safer.

You don't need a car in the first place and when you choose to buy a car you need to realise that you don't have to have the newest and best and all that. You can easily buy a second hand car. You can easily buy a cheap run about. You can easily fit you, the missus and the kids in a car not comparable to a 4x4 hilux. Having a car is a god send when it comes to having kids and I am glad we have one.

But there are more important things in our life right now than buying a fancy car that will be perfect for what we want. Just because we want something, doesn't mean we get it. You make out that as soon as the missus is pregnant you need to rush out and upgrade everything. Loans on depreciating assets ftw.

Loans on depreciating assets ftw haha. Yeah i'd never, ever get a loan for a car, ever. My aim is to only ever have 1 loan in my life, my home loan, and i'm on track for keeping it that way. Ah cool, I was wondering how they'd know what my bank account is, but it makes sense that they'd use my last tax return information.

I simply think that people need to take control of their finances and what they buy. I think a lot of people tell themselves that they need something or else their life will be unliveable.

Just because your missus is pregnant is no excuse to go out and upgrade everything and buy brand new. I would LOVE a new car. Am I about to go out and buy it? Because we can't afford it and it is better we put money into our mortgage than a car that would make my life easier. I am not a martyr, but really - some people have no clue about sacrifice and living within your means.

Nice work, me too. I like the plan of dumping all disposable money into the mortgage now, so in 10 years I'll have my house paid and free to do whatever.

Just had a look through the tax office's info on the payment Today was a good day. Is the Productivity Commission good enough for you Obes? Sorry it ain't a backslap for the socialist do-gooders.

I agree k is nowhere near rich, but it's enough for a comfortable existence certainly. At least they should. In times of recession people reduce their spending and people with less money reduce their spending more than people with more money, as they have less to start with. The idea of the hand-out is for it to be spent, injected back into the economy, and as previously stated the government will get some of this back through GST and Company taxes etc.

No, just because you got a refund it doesn't mean you aren't eligible. If you got ALL the tax you paid to the government back, you most likely are not eligible. Actually, in layman's terms, if the ATO ended up with any of your money at all and you fit the income criteria, you can get the bonus. Why is my income taxed as an individual even though i have a wife at home looking after two kids full time?

But yes, you're right, I do need better tax advisor s. Hmm yeah it is pretty arbitrary cutoffs though. It's the most easy and cheap way to do it though. And yeah infi is right. Plenty of other stuff too. If you put it in the bank you are ruining our economy.

Buy stuff that you will need in the future or upgrade some gear around the home. Tequila is just a whinging idiot. I"LL take one wii thanks. I've moved since lodging my tax last year. I think he was talking about his parents. Oh that's right, great, so the When companies were still posting huge profits and the banks were pretending they had little exposure.

And everyone was saying Australia will be alright because China was still booming. Did you provide your bank details for a EFT Tarentagor? If so, you probably don't need to worry. I'm beginning to like this forum. People are starting to defend me against trolls. I am inclined not to believe you pay this much in tax Anyone whinging should donate their loot to the liberal party. I'm sick of being a student ineligible for Youth Allowance with NO assistance whatsoever from parents AND always missing out on any extra financial subsidies from the govt because of this.

Finally, a system that doesn't dupe me of govt assistance because I can't receive Youth Allowance. This news has made my day. So cry foul to someone else! So QLD incidents in public hospitals were nearly a quarter of the national total The statistics are meaningless, simply the press jumping on the bad QLD health bandwagon. QLD health isn't perfect, but lol at yr quote. He is hard in the 'I am learning teh life experiences in high school and have an awesome outlook in life' stage of his adolescence.

You know nothing about yourself or the world until you leave school champ. He adds more to the economy through his skilled training and lovely personality. We should be bumping up the people that can keep this country afloat. Not pissing it down the throats of peasants!

There is other measures of a state's health system besides amount of deaths in one year. If you graduated year 12 this year, by the time you get your degree years later things should be past the worst. I have no debts, what should I do with this money? D I moved to Sydney for this job, I'm moving back to Brisbane at the end of my 12 month contract to be with my family in QLD for the kids sake and so my mrs can be closer to her family we all make sacrifices in life, some pay off, some don't.

It's quite possible that you will double it nearly a I think the suggestion will be twice as much coke and hookers, but hey, it'll be more fun.

I'm sorry fpot I was unaware that spending the last 17 years of your life living in a K household where struggling with money is constant rendered my experience on this subject annulled.

It's expensive to send your 3 kids to private schools. And don't try to troll my parents on that decision because if you had any idea of school dropouts and OP rates which, WOW, I do! So how about you realize that not everyone was a drugged up lonesome no-life in their high school years and figure out that I do, amazingly, have some intelligence and worldly knowledge.

I am more than aware I am young and don't have a great amount of both, but i've got enough to form an intelligent opinion, and i'm going to express it whether you want me to or not.

You only have fictitious intelligence. Kind of like your sex life huh? You are the wind beneath my wings. I don't get this: My wife does though! I would take a much more literal approach with her wings being her love handles and myself having a bad case of gas.

You guys are the wind beneath my You are the black jelly in my period. You are the flatulence beneath my flabby stomach folds. Doesn't sound TOO bad. You are the carrot in my chunder. You are the cum crust in my sock.

You are the sweaty goo beneath my scrotum. You are the cheesy pate beneath my scrotum. Man I love qgl. Us poor sub k earners don't need your friggen pity. They've just got a cracker of a health care system over there. Don't get me wrong, I've got private health insurance too. But it's good to be able to switch health insurance without switching jobs, vice versa, or choose not to spend money on it at all. Check the ATO link posted previously for confirmation. Clean water, Sewage and garbage men have done alot more for increasing life expectancies then medical folks.

That's what everyone else does with the money. Worst case is surely it'll re-start China's demand for resources and we'll start kicking back up again, right? They could have asked for our patriotism. Something along the lines of 'If this is expendable to you, please buy aussie'. Yeah actually Ross thats a pretty fair point.

I mean if you are going to toss money at people with the whole point of helping the country they should say something to that effect. Rudd is finished he will be gone next election. To me this proves that Rudd is a fool. Lets face it a drunken, blind, chimp with ADHD could have balanced the budget during the mining boom. The Housing Crisis imo is the single most important issue that needs attention. Giving people handouts to prop up the giant pyramid scheme that is the Australian Real Estate Market is stupidity to the extreme and when unemployment rises we will end up like the Yanks and the Poms.

Education, Transport, Health obviously , Energy, Port and Agriculture Infastructure also should have been funded first before this cash orgy. If there was anything left over after the funding, yeah sure give the punters some tax relief. All they need to do is make the price of houses crash - so they are affordable - without making the price of houses crash - so owner occupiers aren't hurt.

Hey i've got an idea.. To make housing aforeable the government could legislate to force the banks to offer discount loans to low and middle income earners - with say a 2 year heavily discounted initial offer. If people get out of the rental cycle and in to home ownership they will be right. Two years with tiny interest will alloy them to settle in to their finance The banks can then securitise these loans and on-sell the risk to investors - making the best of a bad deal for them.

I think she was trying to take credit, but nobody is that silly! Now, the same house or same comparably built-up area will set you back 10x your salary.

The government need to implement dozens of laws to regulate the housing market, including and not limited to: Can you imagine if noone had to worry about the cost of essential services like housing, water, phones, electricity and, gas? If they're really serious about making lives easier, subsidize a basic cost of gas and electricity in low-income families ffs.

Yes, but now every man and his dog has a property portfolio and is renovating and selling, renovating and selling. I blame all those reality renovation shows.

Redevelop that land into entry-level housing. They are in other cities too eg. Liverpool and Manly in Sydney Government makes money off the land sale, employs people directly making new bases, and creates an opportunity for land developers, small businesses and the building sector. They can fix the entire situation by turning canberra into a city.

The report, by United States-based property research firm Demographia, compares median house prices in markets across Australia, Britain, Canada, New Zealand and the United States with median household income levels in those markets to build a measure of affordability.

Historically, median houses prices across these markets have run at around three times median household income.

Prices over four times median income are seen as seriously unaffordable, while prices over five times median income are seen as severely unaffordable. Incredibly, 24 of the 27 markets examined by Demographia fell into the category of severely unaffordable. The Gold Coast market was third on the list at 8. Other Australian capital cities to feature on the list include Adelaide 7. The survey notes that Australian house prices have not fallen as dramatically as those in the US or Britain, but warns this is likely to change.

The Housing Crisis imo is the single most important issue that needs attention For those who haven't lodged their tax returns When will I receive the payment?

Your income tax return must be lodged with us by 30 June Therefore, when you receive your payment will depend on when your return was finalised. The first round of payments will commence in April. Those who have already had their returns assessed will be the first to receive their payments. They owe money, so they don't bother. It catches up with you in the end though and then has interest and penalties added on. So you're not going to get away with it.

I have just done I think 5 years worth of tax for a client, including old BASs. I warned him about the bill he would get, but we didn't believe me. Sustainability is the key issue - when things go down they go down for a reason.

Not only that, the system that you are describing is essentially unionism which can ONLY result in massively inflated private health fees and fatter CEOs. You need to keep the balance right, encourage people to consider private health, and private health has to remain competitive. FTR, I have private health cover.

Then let commercial industry blossom from research where there is demand but not enough supply. However ultimately the commercial free market will survive on that. Again, you can't make it too cushy for researchers, you want to encourage them to commercialise. One of the biggest gripes defense workers currently have is that their partners have to work in a city, and if you move bases out like you suggest, they have to start living on base and away from family.

They're going to quit - and at a time when we're trying to drive defense numbers up. So you're just transferring an economic problem somewhere else. I don't know anything about economics. The larger scale stuff is well beyond my ability to comprehend. However, taking money that we've already given them, and giving it back in a seemingly arbitrary scheme to make people feel confident the economy isn't going to tank and their jobs are secure just seems like frivolous, wasteful activity of the highest magnitude.

How much time and effort is it going to take to actually just DO this payment? Hundreds, if not thousands of people will need to be involved to make it happen. The actual sheer cost of just performing the action of the refund is going to cost millions, let alone the effect it'll have on government coffers.

It seems to me the best way to make sure people will have more money at the end of the day is to stop taking it from them in the first place via tax breaks - as opposed to taking it and giving it back. Scaled increases to the tax-free threshold based on income would have accomplished this with practically no overhead. Also, I just think people will take this money and buy consumer good with it. Sure, you could argue that it might happen anyway, but if it DID it would be under natural market conditions and it would be a lot slower.

At a time when people should be thinking carefully about money and what to do with it, giving everyone a phat cheque is not going to encourage wise investment. Yeh, this is how the USA works, and it sucks balls and everyone hates it, especially after pissing away all that money in Iraq. This crisis is a crisis of confidence more then anything else.

As FDR said we have nothing to fear but fear itself. Giving money back is clever in a few ways. It's not permanent, it doesn't need a hostile senate to agree to reverting a tax cut. It makes every well most punter out there feel a bit better about life It is cash in the hand, if you lose your job and aren't paying tax what good is a tax cut? It can be targeted, tax cuts apply to more to the CEO who gave themselves a payrise then the cleaner they just cut the wage of.

Obes comes through with the goods again. Remember Turnbull is an ex-merchant banker from the MAC millionaire farm No, it's the banks. You, Obes, are one of the people that is making Australia the nanny-state that it is.

Are you serious pinky? But on to the second point Who forced the banks to lend the money? Australia the nanny state with its nanny state banking regs is one of the few countries that hasn't had a major bank fold.

Maybe there is something to the nannying When her boyfriend kicked her out in one of those crushing scenes Where was she to go, what was she to do she was out on her fanny lolz The nanny named Fran! Yes, it's the banks. Anyways it wasn't here that's the problem. Our nannying regs that have been developed continuously since Howard was a treaurer in what the late 70s seem to be working.

He got relatively wealthy out of investment banking but the big cash cow was when OzEmail was sold to MCI and then later on his involvement with FTR's investments put the cream on top. I want free money and I will waste it on gambling and booze. Jobs come and go but the chance to spend almost a grand of public money on one night out does not come along often enough.

Kevin '07 gone in '11 - Join the Facebook group today! I'm creating t-shirt designs as fast as you guys are coming up with ideas. Please, keep it up, you'll make me rich yet. Yeah, I am serious. Banks make money from lending. Of course they are going to lend. It's people that need to accept responsibility for their stupid actions that's the problem. Unfortunately there's a lot of stupid people around if you haven't already noticed.

This post has been removed. Obes if you have even listened to any of Turnbull's commentary over the past month he has been criticising Rudd for bailing out and cushioning the banks.

It's Rudd who is licking the asses of bankers. Turnbull's alternative policy couldn't have responded better. A measured across the board tax cut allows a stabilising economic stimulus to inject real structural change into the economy, not these one hit wonder sugar hits Rudd keeps insisting on. They do not maintain any real change in investment decisions.

Business cannot plan anything if they are constantly waiting for the next sugar hit. I have to assume Rudd is just a crack addict or bipolar. Far too many people are living beyond their means. Spending more than they own and backing it all up with loans. We live in a world where we have to have things right now. I think it's definitely a banks responsibility to enforce a more strict lending criteria.

Why do they already restrict the amount they will let you borrow on both loans and credit cards. They just need to tighten it up. That's like saying it's a drug dealer's responsibility to restrict drugs to an addict.

I think loan assessment should be standardised. Then all banks do is compete on rates and features offset accounts, lines of credit, etc. The problem is that when the gov't tries to do anything it does it ridiculously inefficiently where commercial entities are inherently efficient by nature because their income depends on it.

Until they want ISO and so on that is, then they become inefficient by nature For starters I don't think a drug dealer is the type of person to care. Secondly a drug dealers selling habits is less likely to be managed to law. Either way, I still believe it's the banks responsibility. I sure am mate. Obes is spot on, while economists will differ on whether a stimulus package is the best way to go Freidmanites and other similar conservatives tend to argue for looser monetary policy , i.

The problem with only spending is that it's not quite as effective as tax cuts however it can be more easily targetted into infrastructure that's actually needed. The problem with tax cuts is that particularly in times like this people use the cuts to pay off debt or save it for the coming rainy days when you want them to spend it in the economy.

So neither one nor the other is reliable as a stimulant. So if you're whingeing about the money not going to hospitals and schools, then pay more attention and read the bill when it's tabled because that's exactly the sort of thing they're proposing. So what your saying is that theres a lack of houses, but people with money cant buy properties to rent as an investment? No moobs thats why I put 'Reduce Negative Gearing' not abandon it.

NG was set up to encourage house building which it did Now it is out of whack.. Meanwhile our tax dollars are going towards people who own multiple properties.

Now plz understand I think NG is a good idea in principle but like all mechanisms it requires adjustment when times change it doesnt have to be set in stone. Meanwhile build more Public Housing. Thats the way to give the market a 'soft ' landing rather than the whole thing either shooting up or falling in a heap. In fact use the tax money saved and put it straight into housing.

But they wont do that because it makes to much sense. Good on them, much respect. Yeah I agree, though I think the payout would have more of an effect if they deployed it early last december. More chance of it actually being spent on consumer products. The poll on news. Meanwhile build more Public Housing im not sold on public housing. Infi you have to say that you are a member of the liberal party.

But Turnbull's alternative policy couldn't have responded better. If the liberal party decide he hasn't performed well on the issue and all of a sudden have a new leader no doubt you'll be singing about how good he or she is?

To me this high lights the main problem with Australian politics. A bi-partisan approach is needed but could never happen because it would be used as fodder for saying "the government can't make their own decissions". Banks make money from people paying back loans. It is up to them since it is their money to determine if the loan is safe. I'm not sold on public housing. Yeah, you don't need to go to the UK to see that. I feel dodgy parking a rental car in those areas for fear that the wheels will go missing while I'm in a house.

What's the solution though when you have high unemployment? I'm not talking about professionals who can re-locate - the problem is your factory workers, apprentices, retail workers and so on. The latest estimate is k workers unemployed by The prevention is money into education. The solution to the problem when it already exists, I dunno. Free money for all! The opposition isn't going to pass it, so oh well - was fun while it lasted.

Supporting a very factional party yourself Obes you can't really start nit-picking at the Libs. And this statement is purely speculative and trolling. Try to hold-back on the put-downs if you can though, please - they aren't constructive. The legislation you're referring too was passed about 20years ago and doesn't even do what you think it does.

The opposition isn't going to pass it, so oh well - was fun while it lasted Err.. The Age article Turnbull, "We know that this is not going to be a popular decision, but it's the right decision. I would benefit with approximately 23 additional cartons of beer. Just because the Libs are opposed doesn't mean the bill has been rejected. There's still the Greens and independents. Bank gives out money, then they need it paid back plus interest. In my limited economic knowledge, they seem totally different.

And it's a retarded comparison anyway. The dealer gives drugs, receives money. Dangerous but game move from the Opposition.

Since this particular package isn't targetted at families, there's a whole lot of people who will feel double disenfranchised having missed out on both packages. The bill may pass the Senate anyway with some mods - the Greens broadly like it and the independents haven't shown their hand. With the sort of money being tabled its actually hard to imagine the GOv not being able to buy the special interest votes it would need without bi-partisan support.

Opposing the bill will only work for the Libs if it doesn't eventually pass. Looking like pricks to some while at the same time being shown as ineffective in opposing the bill is a big hit. So I'm pretty sure bunnings would be getting my money. No lcd, I've got a home theatre projector:

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By the way, giving cuts to people under k and not over k is in no way even close to being communist! That's not how communism works! I removed the last sentence because you lost me there. I'll pretend you didn't write that one. Yes, in Australia we have a Proportional Tax system where higher income earners pay a higher percentage tax. There's quite a few countries with a Flat Tax system e.

However, there are many arguments against a flat tax system. I looked all over their page, except for the FAQ pages, and couldn't find any information in the 'about' sections that said it was government owned. I found a few other sides including a commentary from Alan Jones I should have known right then it was probably not true that suggested it was privately owned.

Surely it's all about Future Proofing the nation? Obviously it's going to be a big spend, not just one or two billion. We were thinking What are we going to spend it on? Well we haven't decided yet So we're looking at a big spend, around 15 billion?

The relief package was brought to you by these guys: I don't get the fear of going into debt as a nation. Why is it okay for people to borrow to buy a house for example to secure their future but it's not okay for the nation to secure it's future? Going into debt is not the end of the world, sometimes you have no choice. I doubt this is a perfect package, heck I'm sure we all do Yeah if it happens it'll be my first government hand out ever. The first ever single white employed male bonus!

Never had a baby bonus, Aus-study or dole or any of that waffle. There's a difference between going into debt and getting a house and going into debt to have a big party with evervyone you met on the street over the last 5 years. If a few years time, one of them will still be useful. The other will just give you a headache and leave you with nothing. I'll let you figure out which 'giving cash handouts' better represents. God damn that crazy Turnbull wanting more time to read through the documents!

Hey, those toilet seats are expensive. Peter Costello on Madonna King this morning was right on the money as per usual. The first King Kevin stimulus package was demonstrated to have maintained , jobs according to statistics. Not a single job was created however. Now King Kevin wants to print more money to maintain jobs. Employers will not employ more people until they are confident that the cycle is turning. Panasonic has just layed of 15, workers! This depression is just beginning and Rudd is not keeping any powder dry.

He is going to take Australia to its largest public debt position ever in a period of 4 years. No amount of government printed money can turn the cycle. It requires a full shake out, all inefficient operators to collapse, all over geared borrowers to go broke, and all marginal developments to go bust.

What King Kevin is trying to do is turn back a tide. Tax cuts and direct employer incentives are the most efficient hope to minimise the harm of the coming depression. Link to today's Mark Knight cartoon from Herald Sun plus poll result from yesterday's question, "Will the Government's rescue package work?

It's basically a more true concept of commonwealth. Except somehow kings decided that 'common'wealth meant "I own this land, but you people can use it equally as much as I'm happy to let you". There's this misguided concept that communism means the government owns everything - which simply isn't true at all.

That's socialism, not communism. I never said they own everything, my beef is that just because I earn more, I should contribute more and get less to bring my spending and lifestyle more into line with the general population? The problem with these backyard analogies of cars and parties is you aren't looking at the problems with enough "scale". The government gets tax from every item purchased. Then if a person keeps a job, that means they keep getting payroll tax and they don't pay that person dole double win.

If the item was made in Australia using Australian materials happy days. And if it saves say even marginal jobs from being lost or helps keep a small business open If you pay off a loan its probably reducing our private sector foreign debt If it increases consumer confidence that is a good thing.

This whole problem is as much a crisis of confidence as it is anything real. And given that the Liberal party is talking about a tax cut that will actually over the medium term give back more money, it can not be a question of how much, but rather timing. Would that money have more effect now or spread out over the next 2 years in dribs and drabs?

That is not to say I actually see the handout as being important or right I am not an economist. And I haven't seen a rational explanation against that isn't full of emotives and or abuse, usually signs that an arguement is weak. Debt is bad doesn't cut it for me, I think governments running at a profit is just as bad thing. And the majority of the stimulus package has nothing to do with the handouts. Its improving schools and other infrastructure. All of which is now going to be delayed.

And again the libs seem ok with this bit? And I do think infrastructure needs work. At the end of the day the blocking to me looks more like political point scoring then anything real. Surely a constructive approach would be to say "we'll sit down with the government and see if this is what's best and help come with alternatives if it isn't" but that's not as sensational as the theatre that is currently happening and both side and the media are to blame for the pantomime.

That BHP announcement yesterday was ominous. I read it as Queensland and Western Australia are about to have a bunch of new ghost towns created.

Communism is great - in theory. I earn money, it gets taxed. Spend that money, it gets taxed. Government gives it back to me in a handout and I spend it and gets wait for it taxed.

That's like a triple-dip! I need to get on this government bandwagon! We can create QGLralia.. I still want my bucks Yes but that's not communism. It might have some tenets of socialism, but it's sure as hell not communism. Will regularly scheduled LAN events be in the constitution? That's the nature of a progressive taxation system. Those who are lazy who earn more pay more to fund those who earn less. Progressive tax is a serious disincentive to people working harder but it is a hangover of our union heritage.

I don't think it was designed to save us from a recession - its fairly inevitable at this point but I still think its pointless that news poll could have said "do you think Rudd is a tool for even proposing this idea" - the results would still be the same. Didn't moving pictures write a song about that? So referring to Kevin Rudd as King Kevin invalidates the point. Now you are just avoiding having to provide a considered response.

No but it colours it as an attack not a response. I think that everyone should be entitled to the scheme unless you earn over k and you worked for either a bank or an investment bank. I couldn't find a reliable politics reference but I am sure that the idea behind a Proportional Tax system is to bring the lower and upper classes more towards the middle standard of living.

It's a good idea - the only question, like anything, is the balance. It's generally accepted that 'classes' in the broad sense of the word are bad. They lead to exploitation and so on. For extremes just look at China and India.

So therefore, this should be avoided. That's the aim of Proportional Tax. It has nothing to do with work ethic. You're not getting less. You're still getting more. It's just the government has dictated that you shouldn't get proportionally as much more as your employer s have said they'll give you.

But you're still getting more: Also, BS progressive tax convinces people to not work harder. It does this no more than Ad valorem tax.

The reason is simple: I actually agree with you by the way But if it were up to me, there'd certainly be limits on personal income. More than likely a system I'd prefer would say that you can't earn say more than 6 stddev's from the company average. Because, like I said before - who the hell needs six learjets, solid gold humvees, or diamond studded swimming pools? What I'd do for a Diamond studded swimming pool.

Also a toilet made from solid gold would be sweet. Those people driving BMWs bought foreign, so sent their money overseas. Those on less than k probably bought locally built cars and therefore supported the Australian car industry and with it the Australian economy.

Um because they work more and are judged as being more valuable to the economy? It's not dodging the issue. Particularly given many of the people who most need this money, have lost or are about to lose their jobs, and as such will recieve 0 benefit from a tax cut? My point is, if a member of the liberal party branch president right?

I ignore it just like I ignore left wing loony "news" sites. Either you can discuss it and get your point across without the theatrics You seem capable of expressing an ideas and concepts. Which can only leave an arguement you believe consciously or unconsciously is lacking in substance. That said the whole political system seems to be about a 30 second sound grabs and pleasing a few swinging voters along with a healthy dose of divide and conquer.

You are in politics so I guess it's the done thing. There is one other option, you are petty and simply can't communicate without belittling those who have a different view to you. I drive an m5 and I have a massive penis! I also bought 2nd hand so I am supporting some Australian somewhere! The k person only exist because he's made money off the 40k people. I must be doing something that those people aren't doing right?

Thus all your arguments are invalid. The bottom line is if you want to be rich enough to buy all your toys in this country earn enough to do it after you pay your taxes.

Also learn to pay as little tax a legally possible. PAYG is for donks. I really hate it when people think that the amount of money you earn is completely related to how hard you work. I'm still at uni now, but I know that my maximum earning potential in my future job is about 65k - and that's after 10 years of service.

You can't possibly work that hard Teq, you're replying on here far too often. Ross give me a job you flithy Lions supporter then you'll be helping another aussie out.

P Gotta say guys I am getting increasingly more worried about the current situation. I lost my job yesterday and as a casual I have nothing to back myself up with. I wouldn't be worried as much if I could see some light at the end of the tunnel. But seriously with the media constantly bashing us with doom and gloom it's hard not to get depressed. I think you just like telling everyone you earn over k, like you are trying to make yourself seem more important than other people or something. You probably like to tell everyone which private school you went to and which one you will be sending you kids too and what car you drive etc.

I could be wrong though. Any why is that so important to disclose? I do have a massive penis though! I already said it once in this thread, but I'll say it again - why shouldn't I be able to defend my position because I earn more than you do?

Oh no he's trying to make out how awesome he is because he earns more.. Yeh teq likes himself a little too much. Because arguments should be made by people without a bias or conflict of interest. I heard on the radio this morning they caved last night, is that not true? Teq has every right to whine about not getting cash. He is not in any kind of biased position.

He is coming from the only place comments like his can be made! Yes people who make more money are taxed higher, that aint gonna change anytime soon, unless you move to another country. I said I could be wrong about the other things, you just seemed like a private school type person. There is people that actually need it.

BTW, whilst I a full time uni student earning next to nothing could really benefit from this money, as could many others, I don't known that I necessarily agree with it. It sounds a bit like the baby bonus all over again I don't need it either, I'm completely opposed to the idea of giving the handout but if someones going to get it, everyone should get it otherwise its discrimination based on your wage yeah, I just dropped the D-bomb.

Why are people punished for only being able to afford one house and not being able to negatively gear it. People who earn alot of money and have investments usualy have good accountants who use all possible methods to reduce the ammount they have to pay tax on, yes its all legal, but its stuff that normal wage earners cant do.

Exec and spends all day posting on qgl? I think smoke just came out of your ears mooby. Some people are born into wealth, have families who help them, have money to throw around and get accountants who can reduce the amount of taxes they pay. Some people have to work for it. Some don't bother trying. At the end of the day if someone really wants something, they will work for it. My point basically is that anyone can work their way up in the world, it just takes a little bit more work for some than others.

Persons disadvantaged do receive some assistance from the govt; at the end of the day individuals need to make the choice to work for themselves. Perhaps the money would be better spent on projects that would benefit all in the community, whilst at the same time stimulating the economy e. Surely people have learnt by now that one-off lump sum payments are not the best way to go You know what's funny about this thread that I've noticed?

I don't need it, i don't deserve it, i don't want it - until I'm told I can't have it because I earn too much. Because its not impartial or even 3rd party? It's like an employee of Blizzard giving Diablo 3 a rave review. You notice things poorly raven. Maybe that's why your'e getting a handout? Infi, I think you have referred to Kevin printing money like 5 or 6 times now.

I can't find anywhere in this stimulus package where they said they are going to print a bunch of moeny to hand out. Anytime money is borrowed i. I know it is a difficult concept to get your head around.

It is probably the most difficult concept in economics to understand. But maybe you are just having trouble grappling the concept. I recommend you watch some of those videos linked to in the "what is money thread". You what I think shows up the worst in this thread, people sense of entitlement.

No matter what you do in life. It disgusts me that people making more than 80k a year with a solid job would even raise an eyebrow over who deserves what. You know what would be interesting. If the government put no limitis on the hand out at all and just asked people that think they honestly deserve it to put their hand up.

Does anyone here actually believe anyoen on this planet is worth that much? You'd have to solve world hunger or resolve all the worlds conflicts before I'd even consider saying yes.

After all it was my money originally, until it was taxed from me. Given I do not approve of such a ridiculous transfer of wealth by not taking the money I would in fact be endorsing the government's policy.

If only they used taxes for the purposes they were supposed to i. Lucky for you I am another one of the millions of people who studied Economics. Printed money in its loose terms refers to fiat money. This stimulus package does not include fiat money. This means the stimulus package DOES have intrinsic value meaning the 49bil can be traded for gold or any other currency if they so wished to. Sounds to me like you would just waste it on tissues anyway so no big loss.

Your comments however aren't just another group offering a viewpoint. You have a known affiliation AND every comment is emotive or degrogatory.

And thus comes off as a rant because there absolutely no chance you have considered the topic at hand on its merits. No, given I am small business person and employer of over people there is absolutely no chance I have considered the effects of this policy on the domestic economy. It must be all about the politics. I get that argument infi and I understand your point totally. I personally would rather see that kind of money going into things that have a potential for giving returns in the future.

They way you put it in an earlier post kind of sums up my concerns. As you put it this is just a sugar hit and of course the body is going to feel ok for a little bit but it simply won't have lasting effects.

In time the hunger will return and then what? I would much rather see 1, jobs created bulding roads health care and schools than see Shantel with a ciggie hanging outa her trap while she slams that money through the pokies. I know not everyone will do that but I also know that there are people out there that aren't strapped for cash that'll just bank it because they really don't need it to help them day to day.

The government's deficits mean they are spending money they do not have. They will be issuing more Australian dollars than they have collected in taxes. They will be in turn inflating the Australian economy, and furthermore to do that will be incurring interest expenses to service that debt. All money circulated by a government is fiat money.

Fiat money means that when the paper note or money order is presented, it must be accepted as a valid form of payment. For a 74yo you'd still give her one. She has been sucking back bacadri breezers for the past 5 years plus popped out 3 kids to 3 different fathers and has been a 4 packs of rollies a week girl for 10 years.

So I don't know how hot does that sound? Hey making rollies is mos def a selling point. Yeah there is pave All the people crying foul now about how its a bad idea sure as hell would be putting there hands up for it. One with a sticker on it like this: Yeah but it's how you figure out what they have earnt the company, is the sales person worth all the sales he gets? Betcha he doesnt get a huge commission, cause he was just doing his job. Are the heads of the companies worth so much more than the people below him who probably did all the hard work implementing his ideas and probably fixing his ideas so they actually work.

Privately run companies you should make whatever you want. Publicly run companies should have directors and board members paid in dividends based on some equation. Capping works in rugby league and other sports in australia They are the most valuable members in society! So i don't see why business heads aren't treated to the same conditions if they think they're so high and mighty??

To my knowledge, yes. I think caps are fine for businesses that take government underwriting or handouts. Say if you are getting money to run an old persons home. Or if you are a bank and all your business is protected by the government. Yeah well my idea of tough is using a pineapple. I think that is fair, if they're coming to the govt cap in hand because they're broke and then the govt gives them money, the government should have some say in how the business spend it.

Cause cranking the price up on the old people who cant afford it is the way to go. It's k american, k australian. Poor policy decisions in the 12 months leading up to the crisis made it worse in Australia than it should be.

Gillard admitted that we have the best regulatory system in the world, but Rudd can't bring himself to acknowledge it, and instead introduced an ill-conceived deposit guarantee which created negative responses in confidence and financial markets and effectively froze any money not deposited in a handful of institutions. This of course stopped spending from some people firmly in its tracks and created further negative sentiment regarding the strength of banks and financial systems in general, which sends the wrong message completely.

He and the grossly incompetent Swan were welcoming interest rate rises less than 12 months ago and using non-moderate language for elected officials regarding inflation and infrastructure bottlenecks. To top it off, he's going to force through IR changes that will mek it harder to have a flexible workforce and thus force business already under pressure to shed staff due to the inability to create a flexible agreement to ride out the downturn.

The government haven't created the problem, but they definitely magnified and fast-tracked it, and now they are trying to spend their way out of trouble and blame anyone but themselves for the mess.

Sooner or later, they have to take accountability for the current state of the economy and institute a proper plan for recovery instead of throwin around money they don't have like a drunken sailor in a brothel. The language they use now to describe the crisis, and the language they used before they even realised there was a crisis, is just downright irresponsble for elected officials, and they should try to be moderate, as it effects the public psych.

The spending is NOT for an immediate cash injection, or at least it shouldn't be. Most, if not all, should be directed at infrastructure projects you know, those bottlenecks they were talking about? Retail spending on mostly imported goods has a minimal short-term benefit to a struggling economy influenced by global meltdowns, and merely delays the inevitable.

Prevention and not delay should be the goal. A cogent criticism of Rudd's spending policies can be found here. Infi, that article is good and makes valid points. But like rudd, he uses too much jargon and attempts to make himself sound intelligent through use of such langauge, but instead completely loses the layman reader who it should be aimed at so they can understand the issues.

Anyone that understands the language he is using in that story, already knows what he is trying to convey anyway. I thought that was how they voted? They form their opinions on this issue based on whether they have a bill due next week or not. That's why Rudd does well, he speaks in Sunrise-ese.

I find this whole situation rather disturbing. On the one hand Rudd and Swan's panic driven incompetence which is now truly undeniable. On the other hand we have the Liberals who have been flailing about showing no focus. Turnbull and Bishop should be tearing Rudd and Swan a new arse but instead they make their little 'Oh we know this block will be unpopular' speeches. That's why Rudd does well, he speaks in Sunrise-ese ahaha. I will just be glad to get something!

Everyone knows you round up, not down. Spook, why do you get it three times? Your kid isn't at school yet, so I wouldn't assume you would get the back to school bonus. It just keeps getting worse: It's not about the economy, that's about helping people. Bring on my free money!

I would think that under 30 would be a better number, but whatever. Maintaining a strict budget surplus at the moment is stupid, and will without a doubt cost jobs. The Government has an opportunity via public spending to soften the impact of any recession. That said going berserk handing back the nation's taxes isn't a credible solution either. Putting a couple grand in the hands of cautious people who are already offloading debt just gives them a month or two extra buffer on the mortgage.

I mailed the Ruddler the other day on his website, proposing that he instead invest in small business growth - specifically th creation of new jobs.

In my case, I want to employ new staff. I think we have a growth opportunity as competitors falter because our company has no debts. We have a nice block of work booked up ahead of us for the next few months. But I don't want to put some poor graduate on and have to let 'em go in six months because the work dried up or took a dip for a while. Employers can be jerks but that's just the worst possible scenario and nobody wants to let good people go. If I knew I had X amount of the new person's salary secured as a grant for Y months I could more easily make a difficult hire decision.

Just my fiddy cents anyway. No I dont think so.. Remember these are your tax dollars the Governemnt is spending so would you rather: Seems pretty simple to me. Build a high speed as in proper high speed, not the lame Australian interpretation of the term rail link down the east coast.

Maybe other cities, too. Good for greenhouse gas emissions, and eventually cheap airfares will dry up as fuel prices climb. If I could get a train to Sydney in four hours instead of one hour by plane, I'd take the train. When you consider the check in and baggage stages of flying, plus the annoyances inflicted on you during the process, the train would be way better. Have a look at this article from last year by a client of mine in Cairns.

Against this backdrop what can our Government and Reserve Bank do? The Reserve Bank will reduce interest rates. My advice is to take the opportunity to reduce debt and resist the temptation to borrow cheaply. I appreciate that this will compound the problem, but you must get your house in order. The Reserve Bank will also ensure the continued stability of our financial system.

The government has the perfect opportunity to put its money where its mouth is regarding climate change. Solar, wind and nuclear power are some of the projects that spring to mind. The harsh reality is the economic dye is cast. Consumer habits are going to change.

Governments can attempt to soften the landing by throwing money at the problem but free markets are like water, they eventually find their own level. Pursuing popular spending policies that lack substance will squander any good that can be salvaged from this period of economic hardship.

Out of adversity comes opportunity. In these difficult times our leaders should articulate a vision not make policy on the run. Vern's a really switched on Financial dude. His series of articles that ran on the Cairns post are spookily prophetic for the past 2.

When everyone else was boasting about how wonderful the world was he was writing about caution and the fall to come. They are also written in layman's language and make a lot of sense. Recommend a run through them to anyone looking for an insight into the state of things.

Flying is a complete pain in the arse and way overkill for smaller trips. A super fast express train like the one you describe would be sweet. Personally, I'm going to buy a and Guitar Hero. Tha Japanese built their shinkansen train system back in the 60's, if they could do it then, we certainly can do it now. That would be awesome, a line from Brinbane or higher down to Melbourne, via Canberra and then maybe across to Adelaide. I've always thought so.

It didn't get the votes, is not currently likely to go through at all. So is it happening or not? I've already decided what I was going to do with it. Also Stinky I tried to make your duck recipe but the sauce sucked a bit, I think because I couldn't find pomegranate juice and had to buy pomegranate molasses and try to reconstitute it. Also I may have reduced the mix too far, when I added the roux it was basically of a pudding like consistency.

I would much prefer tax cuts and benefits becoming tax offsets. Come on government, get back in there and talk sensible!!! I am so happy right now. My faith in the Senate has been restored! KRudd is such an epic failure you will be facing many more disappointments over the next year. Kinda happy it didn't go through. It's not free money, deficits need to be paid back for some parties anyway. I would prefer a smaller and more directed spend. Spending massive amounts of money and going into a huge deficit only makes me want to hoard my money more.

I wish I wasn't half serious. Or is it a bit of column A, a bit of column B?

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